Space - the final frontier

[FloridaGardener2]

This would not be much of a concern, except the upcoming Jan 2025 "arctic blast" here in the Florida Panhandle will range from a brutal 28 to 50 degrees for 10 whole days! Eeek!

I have a colony that shrunk drastically since fall (from a comfy fit in 3 medium boxes).  I checked last week (while temp was 65 and sunny) and there's a small amount of brood in a tiny normal-looking nest.   They're on 6 frames more or less. 

I took away the top box (brood comb 3/4 full of honey).  I put an inner lid with an opening between the bottom brood box and the 2nd upper box, also 3/4 full of honey. 
The idea was to conserve heat, but allow access to the honey stores above.  The inner lid makes a "partition wall" but of course the opening allows heat to rise.

They have 4 frames of honey in the bottom box.  I doubt they'll need much more for another few weeks, due to weather.  But I've sensed that colonies "prefer" to keep a box of honey on top and sometime dwindle if they are hoarding the honey.  So I left it even though it doesn't make them "tight" in the bottom box.

Other Conditions: I usually split at end of Feb. when I see drones walkiing in the hive.
SHB was remarkably low - avg of 5 per hive in the inner lids and I don't think SHB are laying b/c it's below 72 degrees.
They have a slatted rack.


My question for comments is: should I have left the inner lid between the boxes? or left the boxes stacked together without the inner lid? or completely removed the top box? 

[The15thMember]

If it was me, I'd probably have not put the inner cover between the boxes, as I wouldn't want the bees to work their way to one side of their box and then not be able to get up in the second box.  If they have some brood, they may not abandon it, so I would be sure they have easy access to honey close to the brood including right above it, and I wouldn't want the inner cover to block any of that.  I think two boxes sounds best for your situation, so they have that easy access to food right above the nest, and don't need to move sideways to get to food.   

[Ben Framed]

Even though Finski was located in Finland there is some good stuff here... (Thanks Buzzbee)

https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=40142.msg340598#msg340598

[iddee]

I would agree with 15th in N.C. Since bees will begin to break cluster at 43 degrees, your weather will allow them free movement each day. I would place all honey frames from the top down, with brood just under the honey. I would place all empty frames from the bottom up. If there were a full box of empty frames on the bottom, I would remove that box. I would also put the inner lid back in it's proper position.

[beesnweeds]

28 to 50 degrees for 10 days is not a problem.  Just put a piece of rigid insulation on top of the inner cover or on top of the outer cover if your concerned, both ways work fine.  Beekeepers here get teens and single digits for extended periods of time with no issues.

[The15thMember]

bees will begin to break cluster at 43 degrees

Ooh, good quantitative fact.  I'm filing that one away. 

[Ben Framed]

Good stuff iddee. I learned through experience that they will also fly for pollen-sub on a sunny 43F day.

https://beemaster.com/forum/index.php?topic=53010.msg477042#msg477042

[iddee]

15th, add 55 for cluster beginning. Start at 55, full cluster at 43. For "yo furriners", that's F.  C is 12.777 and 6.111   

Ben, a sunny 43 will be higher at the hive entrance facing east or south, but 43 is where they begin to think about flying.

[Ben Framed]

Thats right iddee. My first Winter I was dedicated in learning, as I went along through study and experience. I watched the open pollen sub offered intently, and this is where I learned of 43. One degree colder and not a bee on it.

[FloridaGardener2]

It was 50F today.   I pulled the intermediary inner lid, it took 2 mins.  The crew looked better today, maybe more bees staying home today in cooler temps.  They already had an inner lid also (I always use 2 inner lids now as a SHB trap).   And they do have a foam-insulation lined telescoping lid with metal cover.  Guess I'm just suspect to the "Panhandle panic" as everyone local contemplates our Florida farms might actually dip below freezing (32F) this year.

[The15thMember]

15th, add 55 for cluster beginning. Start at 55, full cluster at 43.

Noted. 

Guess I'm just suspect to the "Panhandle panic" as everyone local contemplates our Florida farms might actually dip below freezing (32F) this year.

I don't think it's unreasonable for you to take extra precautions.  Yes, bees can survive far worse temperatures, but your bees aren't used to dealing with this, so they may need a little more support than a colony in, say, Minnesota would. 

[BeeMaster2]

Keep in mind that different types of bees react at different temperatures. Italian bees are the ones that work at those temperatures. I don?t know what temps Carnolian and Russian bees operate at but it is different. I used to closely watch ten different hives of mixed breeds and one hive would bee flying at 40 while other hives stayed home.
Jim Altmiller

[Ben Framed]

Thanks for posting the reasonable insight and information Jim. In my case I ordered 4 or five mated queens very late Fall, and had two from cutouts, (if I remember correctly), really I don't know what kind of bees they were.

[iddee]

Agreed. Italians are what I was referring too. That is the major majority of bees in the US and the others are mostly mixed.

[FloridaGardener2]

I have feral mutt bees now, from local removals.  They fly almost every day, even at 50F/sunny. 

We have forage all year...they are still picking at Spanish needle ("daisy"), mini-asters, camellias etc.  So it's peculiar not to see them out of the hives.

Back to original topic... so then, the general idea to aim for is:  more food is better than staying compact (in one box). 
Right?  Either way here they wouldn't run out of food since there were honey frames on the side, plus the honey band above the brood --- but apparently, better to have the extra stores than a compact space. Right-o?

[The15thMember]

Within reason, in your case, I would say yes.  In your climate, I would think you wouldn't want to leave too much extra food because waxworms and hive beetles could be an issue, but you said the colony was low on beetles, and given the fact that they have brood and will probably try to keep the nest temp. at 95F through the cold, they are likely going to need a lot of food. 

[Michael Bush]

>Panhandle will range from a brutal 28 to 50 degrees for 10 whole days! Eeek!

Does not sound brutal at all to me.  It's 9 F right now and that's not really bad.  Really bad is -10 or -20 or -30 or -40.  28 F is a nice winter day.  50 F is warm enough that the bees will be flying.

[Terri Yaki]

I had no idea that NE got that cold. I'll bet that keeps a lot of riff raff out of your population.

[Michael Bush]

>I'll bet that keeps a lot of riff raff out of your population.

Fortunately, yes.  Denver is warmer so the Californians go there...