If the bees "follow the rules"

[rayb]

The bees are in two deeps and seem to have plenty of stores for winter. When I peeked today I saw the top of the group right under the opening in the inner cover but didn't open any further so don't know how large the group is or how deep they go.

I've read that as they eat their stores that they slowly move up looking for more.

Are my bees "following the rules"? Shouldn't they be lower?
As they deplete the frames around them will they go sideways to find the full frames?
Should I periodically move full frames from the outside to the center?

Or should I go get a good book and leave them alone for a while and check back in January?

Thanks, Ray.

[Cindi]

I can't wait for someone to reply to this question.  I wonder that too, if the bees are in the second deep, I would assume that the food in the lower has been eaten up, but there is probaby no way of checking, because yo would not want to disturb them by (???) lifting off the upper box.  This winter I am trying a new system, we'll see how it works.  I reduced all the bees into one box each, instead of the two boxes.  This was inititated from a seminar I took with our beekeeping instructor on wintering colonies in September.  We'll see, I worry that there may not be enough honey for the bees for the winter with the single box, but we'll see.  We do live in a pretty mild climate, which probably makes the bees more active, eating more, but it also allows one to get into the hives earlier because of warm weather.  I am going to make a sugar board, as per Robo's instructions, and place this on my colonies, just in case.  Last year I brought 3 colonies through the winter fine and dandy with the 2 box method, so this year I will see how my 4 colonies come through the winter living in one box.  As with all in life, it is all a learning curve for sure.  I did peak into them yesterday and they certainly did not have any problem with them all living in a single box each, they were not overcrowded at all.  Cindi

[Michael Bush]

Mine often start at the top and stay at the top. Sometimes they start at the top and end at the bottom.  Rarely they start at the bottom and work their way to the top.

My bees never read the books.

[rayb]

Thanks for the replies. I guess I'll go read the books and let them do their thing. They have the food , I've got to relax. Year number one is almost over......and I have more and more questions.

THANK YOU TO ALL WHO ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS THROUGHOUT THE YEAR.

It has been great fun, I've learned a lot from this forum. I look forward to next year.

Thanks, Ray

[Cindi]

Thanks for the replies. I guess I'll go read the books and let them do their thing. They have the food , I've got to relax. Year number one is almost over......and I have more and more questions.

THANK YOU TO ALL WHO ANSWERED MY QUESTIONS THROUGHOUT THE YEAR.

It has been great fun, I've learned a lot from this forum. I look forward to next year.

Thanks, Ray

Ray, this is a curious thing, during the first six months of beekeeping, I would read diligently, every day, for no less than 2 hours in the morning when I woke up, I get up early.  I spent almost every day with a pen in hand, paper beside, writing down questions that I had come up in my mind as I was pondering and reading.  By the time November or so had come along (I began in April of 2005) with courses and package bees, I had a list of over 100 questions.  I typed these all out, now this had taken months to compile this list and I thought that I would probably by the time have these questions answered, I may know the answers through further searching.  I had been in contact over the net with a fellow that said that I could ask him any questions that I wanted.  So I sent this "book" of questions to him, indicating that if would be certainly more than fine if he took his time in answering, and that maybe by the time he had answered, I may have already had the answers found.  Anyways, I feel so bad for this poor fellow....he never did answer any of them and I have not contacted him.  I am positive that I overwhlemed him so badly that he probably threw it in the gargage, he probably thought that I was some kind of nut face or something (maybe I am, its all in the eyes of the beholder).  so, at this point in time, I think that when I reread this little book of questions that I sent to him, I may have had most of the questions reasonably answered in my mind.  Not to say that I still don't have many, many more that I will find answers for.  Anyways to make a long story short, I can't stop reading still, internet, books, fantastic input on questions prosed on this forum, for example.  You will find the forums a wonderful tool to get your answers answered.  There is always many different opinions that allows one to pick which ones they want to really get into, or not.  It seems there are probably hundreds of different ways to beekeep, as there is with so much else in life.  Have fun reading this winter, its a good time to sit down and reflect. Great day!! Cindi

[Finsky]

My bees do not understand rules. Some winterball are in down box. Most are in the middle.

Most of colonies are near entrance and so are flat and beeball is from lower entrance to topmost.

Some hives have their most winter food in downstairs and upper is uncapped.

To small colony long hard frost is somethimes fatal when colony start to eat upstairs and it does not know that lower box is full of food. It die over food stores. Another way is to die when small colony drifs to one side of box and food ceases. However oppiste side is full of food but colony does not knot that.  If weather is milld, bee ball enlarge and it reaches better the edge of food stores.

So in cold climates it is important that wintering hive does not have extra space.

.

[Cindi]

I think that perhaps it was suggested in a "wintering" seminar that the bees in our climate in southwestern British Columbia, Canada could (or say I should) be condensed into one box, so the bees are able to keep this single box warm, so they can reach their food stores.  The only problem with this one box thing is that I don't think that 60 pounds of honey can fit into it, so I think that the bees will certainly not have enough food for the winter.  This is where I imagine the sugar board would come in handy if one were to use it.  Any input on the single box hive for winter?  Still learning and not enough experience to foresee the future.  Cindi

[Finsky]

bees in our climate in southwestern British Columbia, Canada

I live in Finland on the level of Alaska Anchorage. - When colony is in one box and box is feeded full of sugar, it will be enough to from September to May.  My hives have insulated walls.  I need no sugar boards.

[Cindi]

Finsky,
Yeah!!!  Maybe things will be OK with the food.  I fed the bees beginning of September until they would not take it anymore, probably around 3rd week of October, maybe a little longer, they used it all up, and then did plain and simply just not take anymore.  Guess they really should be OK.  Thanks.  Regards. Cindi

[Finsky]

Finsky,
  I fed the bees beginning of September until they would not take it anymore, probably around 3rd week of October, maybe a little longer, they used it all up, and then did plain and simply just not take anymore.  Guess they really should be OK.  Thanks.  Regards. Cindi

I have had bees 45 years. No doubt how they live.... I use to feed them in first week of Sepember.  One box hive eats itself full in one week. No need to feed longer.

BUT 2 years ago I tryed screened bottom with three 1- box hive and with three 2-box hive.  With screened bottom 1-box hives consumed over 50% more food than with solilid bottom. One died and 2 others were near to die.  In 2-box hives I did not notice any problems.   - It was wind which affeced on screened bottom.  I stoped trials with screened bottoms.

And upper finger size entrance is very essential. Without it you perhaps loose you hive.

.

[Cindi]

Finsky,
  I fed the bees beginning of September until they would not take it anymore, probably around 3rd week of October, maybe a little longer, they used it all up, and then did plain and simply just not take anymore.  Guess they really should be OK.  Thanks.  Regards. Cindi

I have had bees 45 years. No doubt how they live.... I use to feed them in first week of Sepember.  One box hive eats itself full in one week. No need to feed longer.

BUT 2 years ago I tryed screened bottom with three 1- box hive and with three 2-box hive.  With screened bottom 1-box hives consumed over 50% more food than with solilid bottom. One died and 2 others were near to die.  In 2-box hives I did not notice any problems.   - It was wind which affeced on screened bottom.  I stoped trials with screened bottoms.

And upper finger size entrance is very essential. Without it you perhaps loose you hive.

.

I am reading so much about screened bottom boards, some say it is very good, you say no.  I understand you live in very cold area, maybe this is why the SBB hives ate so much, with death and near death.  Sad for the bees eh?  Do you use the SBB when the weather warms up.  It sounded like you have a honeyflow for only 3 weeks, how on earth do you get so much honey, I think I read in a previous post that you get may 120 pounds or so per hive.  I know that I did not even get near that much, maybe 50 pounds at the max.  I think that maybe that darn varroa mite was present all summer, making the bees weak.  I am on a vengence toward this plague.  I thought that I had treated my hives well enough to prevent this, but am finding out I was not even close to my fight with it.  The only treatment I had done was oxalic acid treatment on March 4, obviously, due to ignorance, I needed to keep on a prevention management agenda, this I will be doing.
If the bees take up winter feed within one week of feeding, did they just simply eat all the rest of the s.s.?  I fed them for over a month and a half.  Curious about this for sure.  Great day.  Cindi

[Finsky]

Last summer I got a 10  pounds swarm. It brought 200 lbs honey.

Honey yield depends on pastures and the volume of bees means that you have much foragers.

It must be (to me)  4 langstroth boxes full of bees before they are able to gather honey. 

6 box hive gather rape honey during 2-3 week flowering period often over 200 lbs honey on average.

Bottom boards and hive walls do not bring honey  or paintings what color you have on hive.

[Scadsobees]

I'd also note that the farther north the longer the day is, therefore the faster the plants grow and bloom longer (although a shorter season) and the more time during the day for the bees to forage.

Not to mention if you have them next to a large feild of vigorously blooming and nectar secreteing plants!

If you fed them a significant amount of sugar syrup, just make sure that they don't have any left in a honey super when they start collecting honey again.

-rick

[Finsky]

In my district the secrect is that there are only few beekeepers. I may shoose very good pastures at the dintance of 10 miles. My best yield plants are canola and fireweed

[Cindi]

Finksy, hmm..your comment about 4 Langstroth boxes of bees seems to ring a bell.  In speaking with a bee club member late last spring, I remember now about him talking to me about whether to split a strong hive or not.  He said, depending if you want honey or more hives for next year, or something like that.  Last year I wanted more hives, so I opted to split.  Now I am thinking, that I should go for honey this year, I will add boxes.  Wonder how many high they will end up being.  See what happens compared to how things went last year.  The more bees in the colony, the more nectar gathered I am understanding.  So, add boxes instead of splitting.  Gonna try it.

Speaking of fireweed.  That seems to grow everywhere eh?  We have fireweed here, but I have not seen any within a close proximity to my place, unless it is in the neighbours properties that cannot be see by the road.  About 1 km from our place there is some in a vacant lot across from the little elementary school.  I spent a great deal of time at the end of summer last year gathering the seed of this weed to propogate on my acreage.  I heard the fireweed gives fabulous honey.  So, on my quest to have lots of long-lasting forage for the bees, I gathered and gathered and gathered fireweed.  It is finicky stuff.  I gathered it when the seed pods were ripe, before they opened and set their fluffy little seeds floating everywhere.  I gathered them by the handfuls and put them into brown paper bags, that seemed the easiest way for me to gather this seed.  I understand fireweed is a perennial,  not a biennial or annual.  So, I sowed this fluffy stuff all around the perimeter of the back of my property, shortly after it was gathered.  Of course it would fly everywhere, but I concentrated around the perimeter as much as I could.  Such a pretty plant, I love its height.  It is probably 7 feet tall, is it that tall in Finland too?    I am hoping these efforts, along with many other efforts to provide food for the colonies, that this will help the bees with their foraging activities.  Just hoping that they don't decide to forget all the stuff I have and will be planting to get to greener grass on the other side (LOL).  We have an annual that grows like wildfire on our property in the shady moist spots which is known as impatiens capensis.  Beautiful flower and the bees go nuts on this in September.  It is an excellent late season source, along with many others too.  Hard to gather seed from this impatiens species,because touch it and the seeds fly everwhere before one can even get their hands on it, but there is a trick to gathering this that I have discovered and it works well. Thinking of it, maybe it is rather impatient and has no patience.  Such fun.  Cindi

[Michael Bush]

Or do cut down splits two weeks before the main flow and get honey AND bees:

http://www.bushfarms.com/beessplits.htm

[Kathyp]

cindi

i did the same thing with the fireweed seeds this year.  had a patch grow on my property for the first time. i thought it would be great to expand the patch, so i went out to collect seeds.  i was covered in them!!

the only thing about fire weed is that you have to get it started in bare ground.  it grows really well in burned out places (thus the name "fireweed") and i hope it will grow well where i have ripped out blackberries and killed off the undergrowth.

the bees love the blackberries, but if i don't keep them under control they will take over the whole place.  i figured fireweed would be a good fill in.....

[Finsky]

cindi

i did the same thing with the fireweed seeds this year. 

If you dig root pieces, they start growing better than seeds.

[Cindi]

Finsky, that is great knowledge to have received from you.  It makes sense, fireweed is a perennial.  So, I know that some perennials will flower in the same year as planted from seed, I would imagine the seed planted this fall will indeed grow this upcoming summer.  Good.  But, now I think that following your advice, I am going out to dig up some old fireweed root pretty quick.  It may be a little difficult because the fireweed grows in some pretty heavy duty weedy places, but I am going to go on a search.  We live in such a temperate zone that it is rainy most of the winter only.  We don't have alot of freezing hard soil, maybe in January sometimes, but mostly just rainy wet weather.  I will head out with shovel in hand, that will be fun again.  People for surely will be wondering what on earth I am doing.  Our fireweed blooms here for a great part of the summertime, I noticed that.  I did not notice when it began blooming though, but I do remember last year noticing it around probably the middle of July up until the beginning of October.  That was when I gathered the seed.   Great day.  Cindi

[Finsky]

but I do remember last year noticing it around probably the middle of July up until the beginning of October. 

You live in Canada ? and it must be same  fireweed?  http://www.eagleharborweb.net/images/fireweed.jpg

Here it start to bloom at the beginning of July and bloom about 3 weeks.

If you go to place where soil is loose, you find easily rope like roots. They are quite near  surface.