Moisture Problem!

[Denise]

We got a decent sunny warm(ish) day today so I wanted to take a peek and make sure everyone's food was holding out. The Barbarians have a moisture problem. The inner cover had a small puddle that was coming from the bottom of the outer cover. I removed the inner cover to find more moisture on the frames. What to do?! How can I help them dry out fast without freezing them out?  :? :shock:

[Finsky]

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If water drops from outer cover  it has too small ventilation. It must be real wind draft through the the gap between covers.
If insulations and inner cover are moist they should be dry up. Otherwise moisture developes mold inside hive.


Moisture comes from hive through inner cover and condensates to outer covers cold surface.   Do you have upper entrance hole open?


However there may be water droplets on frames. I have just now and we have really wet wether here. When frost becomes, air will be dryer.

[Brian D. Bray]

What it boils down to is: if you have moisture on the inner cover you likely have water on the bottom board (unless you use SBB) and when it gets cold it turns to ice which can kill of your bees.  Put 3/8 inch hole near the top of the hive to vent the moisture.

[Finsky]

have water on the bottom board (unless you use SBB) and when it gets cold it turns to ice which can kill of your bees. 

Sorry Brian but it does not kill bees. It is normal that I have ice on my bottom boards after winter and bees have no losses. I may see ice sticks hanging in lower parts of frames if I look inside the hive during frost period.

[Denise]

The hives do have screened bottom boards so any moisture should fall thru that, but I'm really concerned about it collecting on the inner cover. I did prop up the outer cover with sticks as a temporary measure until I can add a ventillation hole in the upper deep. We have ventillation holes in the supers, but we didn't add any to the deeps. Rats. Thank you guys for the help. The last thing I want to do is hurt the ladies with my stupidity. Gah.

[Finsky]

When you have screened bottom, so you need not upper entrance.  I suppose.

[Zoot]

Finsky,

You mention looking into your hives during the "frost period" to observe ice on the bottom board, icicles hanging from the lower frames, etc;  what is the actual temperature outside? To get to the bottom frames do you actually break down an entire hive in that weather to inspect?

[Finsky]

Finsky,

You mention looking into your hives during the "frost period" to observe ice on the bottom board, icicles hanging from the lower frames, etc;  what is the actual temperature outside?

It was -8 C outside ( 17F) and styrofam hives solid bottoms.

To get to the bottom frames do you actually break down an entire hive in that weather to inspect?

I looked from main entrance with flash flight.

[gottabee]

Denise,
I did two things to combat moisture buildup. Last few days low temps have been 17-24 deg f. No moisture.
1. Placed innercover vent hole to front of hive to create chimney affect.
2. Placed  spacers (2 paint stiring sticks) between innercover and top cover to create a 1/8" gap to increase air flow.
I also use Screened bottom boards.
Good luck.

[Denise]

Thank you muchly! I do have screened bottom boards on all 3 hives, but I didn't realize that the slide-in board (that you put the sticky paper on) was still in on this one. It looks like they weren't getting any air flow because of that. I removed it and added the sticks under the cover to give some flow-through. I hope this will do the trick. I will wait for a decently warm day and take another peek to see if things have dried up a bit.

[Finsky]

I have ever seen like this in my hives. Weathers has bee very warm and wet. There are water droplets on frames in the middle of winter ball.
Condensation water rains from inner cover. In polystyre inner coves broblem is really bad. I made new wooden covers instead of plastic.



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[Greg Peck]

I also noticed some water sitting along the frame rest. See photos.  Is it normal to have a little bit of water from time to time or should it be dry all the time. I have an inner cover in place with the vent notch facing down. (in this position the bees can go in the notch right into the hive as opposed to when the notch is facing up the bees would have to enter at the notch and go across the inner cover then down the hole in the center into the hive. just clearing that up so I can know that I have it the right way) I have a piece of 1/2 inch foam insulation (it has plastic covering it) between the inner cover and the outer cover. I have a regular bottom board on the bottom. I noted the other day that there was some water sitting on the bottom board just inside the entrance when I took the entrance reducer out to look inside the hive. I think that it may have been rain water because I also noticed that the hive had settled a little and was sloping a little. I shimmed up the back to give it a forward slope and noted that the bottom board was dry today.

Take a look at these pics and let me know if you think that I need more ventilation on top.
Larger pics can bee seen on my site. http://peck.secondfast.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=15

Thanks for your help
Greg

This is just the top of the hive. I did not see any water on any of the frames themselves.


This is the water I am talking about. it is on both sides of the frame rests


This is just a photo looking into the hive.

[Brian D. Bray]

Proper ventilation will get rid of 95% of the moisture in a hive.  A lot of condensation is bad, especially when it can pool in larger droplets or on the bottom board.  Ice in the hive can kill the bees that come in contact with the ice, therefore it is important to minumise the moisture within the hive.  Screened bottom boards (open not with tray closed) and a top entrance cures the problem.  If you insist on the traditional bottom entrance then some form of ventilation is needed at the top.  I find that the notch in the commercial inner tops (notch down for ventilation) is often not enough to vent all the moisture so it still builds up. A notch on each end works better.  A system that allows cross air ventilation above the inner top also works well.

[Finsky]

We have some weeks really misty weather. Clothes become wet when I was outside. However it did not rained.  But this situation is under wet snow, and I have noticed that wintering long periods under wet snow is not good  for bees. Dry winter air is better.

Screened bottom resolves problems? - It did not  with me because 1-boxe hives consumed over 50% more food. One died and two were nearby. Beekeepers use a lot screen bottoms but I am not going to take it into use. I manage well with conventional bottoms.

This winter I carry all 1-box hives into forewood shelter. It is better environment than outdoors. No one walk in shelter during winter. - except mice and cats.

[kensfarm]

I have an inner cover in place with the vent notch facing down.
I have a piece of 1/2 inch foam insulation (it has plastic covering it) between the inner cover and the outer cover. I have a regular bottom board on the bottom.

Hi Greg..  here's my view of your moisture problem. 

The moldy looking top of your frames is caused by having your inner cover on wrong..  the moisture accumulates in the coldest spot it reaches first.. which is the top of your frames due to the inner covers hole letting cold air flow over the frame tops.  You'll have less bur comb on the top of those frames too. 

Flip your inner cover back to correct position.. put an empty super on top of that..  take out the insulation..  now the coldest spot will be the under side of your telescoping cover..  that's where the moisture will condensate(& mold some).. since your hive is tilted.. the water shouldn't drip down onto the cluster.  Your bees will still have a top entrance.. w/ the warm weather we're having you could also do some in-hive feeding to top off the bees stores.  Hope everything works out!  Ken

I have SBB's. 

[Brian D. Bray]

If you follow that advise I suggest you use the shallowest super you have or better yet a Imbre shim.  turn the notch in the shim so the water will run out of the hive due to its slope.