Reposition hives needed?

qa33010 · May 15, 2007, 12:18:15 AM

I went into the hives today to revese brood boxes (probably for the last time for the spring/summer) and see if I needed to add supers. The ferals were great packing in the nectar and capping most of the frames and building comb from the bottom up on the tenth frame.

The two Russians were building burr comb at 90 degree angles from the frames and mostly capped honey. No swarm cells seen when I reversed brood boxes. Added the supers and closed it all up. The bees are happy as can bee and didn't give me a second look. Supers were added.

The curious thing to me is since last April (2006) the Russians have been constantly tying to build their comb at an angle from the frames, even when I cut them out when they are at an angle. They try and build them back or if they build with the frames they try and add a second comb. Would it just be easier for them and me if I just face them west or east? They are facing SSE right now. Am I over reacting?

Shizzell · May 16, 2007, 02:05:58 PM

If they are still drawing their foundation, if you have plastic frames or such that tends to happen. If thats happening, maybe try giving them already drawn comb? If the comb is already drawn, turning the hive a different direction probably won't help it.

However, I don't know much about Russians yet. I am planning on getting some new russian queens next spring, so tell me if they keep doing this. I'm creating a sort of compilation of pros and cons.

I know that some italian hives have done this to me, but I just keep removing it, and they have stopped. I also made sure I spaced out the frames properly, and not gave them too much room to draw too deep.

This breed is still pretty new, so not much is known.

Good luck.

Jake

KONASDAD · May 16, 2007, 03:10:10 PM

Sometimes plastic foundation needs to go all the same direction. In otherwords, look at the very bottom cell before it disappears into frame. It will either look like a "Y" or an upside down "U". Place them all the same direction w/ the "Y" all on the left or vice cersa. Betterbee catalogue suggests this in their hints section next to the plastic foundation section. Hope you understood this.

doak · May 16, 2007, 07:47:59 PM

This I have seen where there wasn't any foundation. Never seen it on full wax or plastic foundation.
????
doak

Brian D. Bray · May 17, 2007, 01:38:52 AM

My experience has been just the opposite of that given by Doak.
I have found that bees seem to have a higher chance of building parallel or angled comb from plastic frames. I have never been able to get bees to work plastic very well. Using just starter strips the bees build their comb down from both sides at the same time and build less angled, parrallel, or burr comb.

If they have a tendency to be creative with their comb building I just keep cutting it back until they do it right.

Michael Bush · May 17, 2007, 09:24:14 AM

Did you crowd the frames together? The less space you give the bees to mess things up the better. Ten frames should be tightly together in the center of a ten frame box.

Shizzell · May 17, 2007, 01:52:11 PM

Brian, I have a question on the starter strips. I have never used them. Do you find it takes longer for the bees to build fully on a plastic foundation start or using starter strips? Also, how well do starter strips hold up when the comb is drawn fully and you want to extract honey? I'm guessing you do use the starter strips for your supers as well?

Jake

Brian D. Bray · May 17, 2007, 06:54:33 PM

I switched to all starter strips after running an experiment. I had a hive with standard foundation and 1 with starter strips. The bees with the starter strips were, initially, a little slower getting started building comb but in a very short period of time they were well ahead of the hive with foundation. The hive with the starter strips were building the comb on both sides of the frame at the same time and in the same place, the comb was much more uniform in appearance. The bees with foundation had waves of comb in spots with areas of undrawn comb between the areas they were working on. There was no cooridination between what the bees on opposites sides of the frame were doing. The bees on the sarter strips built out the frames faster and went to a super before the bees in the foundation hive were 3/4 of the way finished.

I've been using starter strips ever since.

This year I set up my hives about a week before I got my packages. It got cold at night and some of the starter strips broke off level with the botto of the top bar. The bees didn't even blink, they drew out the stripless frames the same as those with the strips. From that experience I'm considering cutting a 1X4 into 1/4 thick strips the length of the inside of the frames and just gluing (or tacking) them into the grove in the top bar.

Michael Bush · May 17, 2007, 11:27:00 PM

And Brian is comparing wax foundation to wax starter strips. They will build plastic even slower.

Shizzell · May 18, 2007, 01:48:04 PM

Ok, another question. How well do the starter strips hold up when they are buzzing around in a n extractor?

Jake

Mici · May 18, 2007, 02:54:38 PM

all new comb should be handeled very gently, same goes for everything, except for plastic? i don't know about plastic. well you asked about starter strips? they're the same as foundet frames, of course you have to wire the frames.

Shizzell · May 18, 2007, 04:36:06 PM

Wait wait wait, I have to wire the frame if I use starter strips?

I suppose that makes sense.

Jake

Brian D. Bray · May 18, 2007, 06:22:45 PM

I don't wire. I let the bees fill the frame corner to corner with comb. I've found that in many cases the bees will leave gapping holes in the combs where the wires are. Once the cmob is attached on all 4 sides of the frame it becomes pretty rigid after about 30-45 days. New comb, or comb that is not attached except at the top, is very soft and will bend easily. Once fully atttached and aged the comb is the same as with supports and can be extracted the same as any other wired or plastic based frame.

Care should always be taken in winding the extractor up so as not to blow out the frames. Carelessness will even cause plastic based combs to bow, bend, or break. Wind it up slow, the extractor should have a ramped switch for that, then allowed to wind down unhindered. Full speed should only last for 2-3 minutes at the most.

Michael Bush · May 20, 2007, 08:06:38 PM

>Ok, another question. How well do the starter strips hold up when they are buzzing around in a n extractor?

It depends. On brand new comb that isn't attached on all four sides it will blow out every time. On comb that is a few weeks old that is attached a little on all four sides, and you are gentle, it extracts fine.

>Wait wait wait, I have to wire the frame if I use starter strips?

You may if you like. I don't and I extract them.