I came home this afternoon and found almost all the bees out of the hive. This is the second time that I've had a problem like this since I installed the package last Saturday. There is no sign of the queen anywhere.
The syrup has been consumed somewhat, probably a quart down, but they haven't touched the pollen patty at all. Troubling.
I'm going to order another queen and see if that fixes the problem.
The bees are where? On the front of the hive? On a limb nearby? On the ground in front of the hive?
They were on the fence about 2 feet away, when it was overcast and approaching dusk. There were about 15 bees left in the hive itself.
Quote from: Daddys Girl on May 04, 2008, 09:46:29 AM
They were on the fence about 2 feet away, when it was overcast and approaching dusk. There were about 15 bees left in the hive itself.
All of your bees were on the fence? If so, your queen is most prob right there amongst them. Your hive absconded for whatever reason. Few questions: Are you painting the inside of your hives? What type foundation are you using?
Sometimes feeders will leak too much and wet the inside of the hive causing the colony to abscond.
Please answer these questions so we can assist you. If bees still on fence you want to put them back in the hive if the hive gets the green light for accomodations. You will want to cage the queen if possible and use entrance reducer to keep them in and building comb.
This prob you are having can be resolved. We are here to help.
...JP
Quote from: JP on May 04, 2008, 09:58:55 AM
Quote from: Daddys Girl on May 04, 2008, 09:46:29 AM
They were on the fence about 2 feet away, when it was overcast and approaching dusk. There were about 15 bees left in the hive itself.
All of your bees were on the fence? If so, your queen is most prob right there amongst them. Your hive absconded for whatever reason. Few questions: Are you painting the inside of your hives? What type foundation are you using?
All the bees were on the fence, about knee height, 2 feet from the hive.
Hive is unpainted on the inside.
Pierco foundation.
On the advice of the beek who helped me install the package, I painted some trusted local honey on the plastic, carefully gathered the girls up in a box, and put them back in the 10 frame box with 8 frames.
I find myself wishing for a 19 inch top bar or two to drop into the hive, to let them build on with the comb they built on the top super where the feeder was.
QuoteSometimes feeders will leak too much and wet the inside of the hive causing the colony to abscond.
I switched from a top entrance to a bottom entrance and went back to using the inner cover on top of the frames. The feeder is now on two shims above the hole in the inner cover. I will reinstall a top entrance once I have them established.
QuotePlease answer these questions so we can assist you. If bees still on fence you want to put them back in the hive if the hive gets the green light for accommodations. You will want to cage the queen if possible and use entrance reducer to keep them in and building comb.
If I could find the queen, it would help. What size mesh is appropriate for that? I have #8 handy and I could possibly come up with some mesh to make a queen excluder to lay on the top and bottom of the brood box. 1/4th inch hardware mesh?
We have the technology.
Are the bees still on the fence?
...JP
Quote from: JP on May 04, 2008, 11:00:04 AM
Are the bees still on the fence?
No, they are in the hive again. I collected them in a box and got them into the hive last night before dark.
We also just fashioned and installed an entrance reducer with an old tomato stake. Gotta love hand tools.
Quote from: Daddys Girl on May 04, 2008, 11:04:01 AM
Quote from: JP on May 04, 2008, 11:00:04 AM
Are the bees still on the fence?
No, they are in the hive again. I collected them in a box and got them into the hive last night before dark.
We also just fashioned and installed an entrance reducer with an old tomato stake. Gotta love hand tools.
Good. Sometimes you have to work with them to accept the set up. I've had some swarm out and had to rehive them, entrance reduce them and they settled in. Just a little extra work and patience along with some worrying is all they needed.
...JP
Quote from: JP on May 04, 2008, 11:10:00 AM
Good. Sometimes you have to work with them to accept the set up. I've had some swarm out and had to rehive them, entrance reduce them and they settled in. Just a little extra work and patience along with some worrying is all they needed.
So now, to keep Her Majesty from walking out of the hive with them again, what kind of hardware mesh should I use? I can get 1/4 inch about anywhere. I know that the #8 I have for the TBH is too small. Can the queen go through 1/4"?
Quote from: Daddys Girl on May 04, 2008, 11:16:09 AM
Quote from: JP on May 04, 2008, 11:10:00 AM
Good. Sometimes you have to work with them to accept the set up. I've had some swarm out and had to rehive them, entrance reduce them and they settled in. Just a little extra work and patience along with some worrying is all they needed.
So now, to keep Her Majesty from walking out of the hive with them again, what kind of hardware mesh should I use? I can get 1/4 inch about anywhere. I know that the #8 I have for the TBH is too small. Can the queen go through 1/4"?
What do you mean by saying the #8 is too small? That you know they won't go through it?
1/4" may be too large, #8 is the standard.
...JP
Quote from: JP on May 04, 2008, 11:38:26 AM
What do you mean by saying the #8 is too small? That you know they won't go through it?
1/4" may be too large, #8 is the standard.
I wish to fashion a queen excluder to keep the queen in the hive, since I have yet to see her. If I can confine her to the brood box, then the bees will probably not abscond again(I hope).
Can bees get through #8?
Quote from: Daddys Girl on May 04, 2008, 11:52:15 AM
Quote from: JP on May 04, 2008, 11:38:26 AM
What do you mean by saying the #8 is too small? That you know they won't go through it?
1/4" may be too large, #8 is the standard.
I wish to fashion a queen excluder to keep the queen in the hive, since I have yet to see her. If I can confine her to the brood box, then the bees will probably not abscond again(I hope).
Can bees get through #8?
Not through #8.
...JP
If you want a queen excluder you'll need #5 hardware cloth. I have not seen any in a hardware store, so you'd have to order it from the bee suppliers. But it also doesn't let pollen in, so what you really need is either an "entrance guard" or an actual excluder.
I'd spray some lemon pledge in the hive next time they are out of it, or put a few drops of lemongrass essential oil on the top bars.
Quote from: Michael Bush on May 04, 2008, 12:52:49 PM
If you want a queen excluder you'll need #5 hardware cloth. I have not seen any in a hardware store, so you'd have to order it from the bee suppliers. But it also doesn't let pollen in, so what you really need is either an "entrance guard" or an actual excluder.
Okay. I'll see if Walter T Kelley can send me an actual excluder.
QuoteI'd spray some lemon pledge in the hive next time they are out of it, or put a few drops of lemongrass essential oil on the top bars.
Can I lay or rub Lemon Balm(Melissa) on the top bars? I assume that the lemon scent is an attractant, and I have LOTS of lemon balm at hand.
Lemon grass smells a lot like nosanov, orientating pheremone.
...JP
>Can I lay or rub Lemon Balm(Melissa) on the top bars?
Yes. That will work nicely too.
This time to the grass outside the enclosure. A big circle about a foot in diameter. Dug out the swarming box and got to work, and got most of them back in the hive. I am taking a break from the work to let them crawl up inside my swarming box before I go back out to finish up for the evening.
Now what? I need to seal them in somehow, because I really can't be picking bees up from random places in the yard every night until a new queen arrives.
This is very frustrating.
Quote from: Daddys Girl on May 04, 2008, 08:58:03 PM
This time to the grass outside the enclosure. A big circle about a foot in diameter. Dug out the swarming box and got to work, and got most of them back in the hive. I am taking a break from the work to let them crawl up inside my swarming box before I go back out to finish up for the evening.
Now what? I need to seal them in somehow, because I really can't be picking bees up from random places in the yard every night until a new queen arrives.
This is very frustrating.
You most likely do have a queen. Why do you want to replace her?
...JP
Quote from: JP on May 04, 2008, 09:02:07 PM
You most likely do have a queen. Why do you want to replace her?
Right now, I need to keep these bees in the hive. I am losing bees every time I pick them out of the grass/off the fence or wherever.
For tonight. I made two cleats of 1 by 2, and cut a strip of #8 mesh to create a 6 inch opening at the base of the hive to keep them in until I can fashion something better. Perhaps with nothing better to do, they will draw comb until I figure out what is going on.
Just be sure they have food (honey or syrup) and water. They have to have both to live.
Quote from: Michael Bush on May 04, 2008, 11:26:30 PM
Just be sure they have food (honey or syrup) and water. They have to have both to live.
:nods: I'll make sure there is a water source out there that can get to them.
Bees are still in the hive, thanks to the presence of a #8 mesh barrier.
I have taken a clean 44oz drink cup and used a pin to pop two small holes in the bottom edge to establish a water drip to the bees at the entrance. I need to check to see how the hive is leveled, and make sure that the water dribbles toward the bees.
The cup can be refilled at intervals throughout the day, and once before bedtime if need be.
I am ordering a new queen in an hour. The worst that can happen is that they kill her, which will be unfortunate, but less unfortunate than losing a hive because I assume a queen is there when there isn't one. :/
At least with the bees inside for the day, I can get the mowing done that I've avoided doing over there all week.
Are you putting sugar water in the cup?
Are you going to put the new Italians next to the renegade Buckfasts?
Jackie
Quote from: mairghead on May 05, 2008, 01:22:29 PM
Are you putting sugar water in the cup?
No, it's straight water. There's a feeder inside and the water is to help them with hive cooling, etc.
QuoteAre you going to put the new Italians next to the renegade Buckfasts?
Yeah. They will be as far apart as I can get them, but they'll have to live in the 8 by 10 enclosure. :-\
Have you thought about using the wax foundation in strips like on the Bush farms website? Are you just going to put the Italians in a top bar hive?
With my new package, I ordered some new foundation to do the strips. The foundation I put in the other hive had been in storage for almost a decade and I kind of wonder if it didn't promote the absconding of my bees. It didn't seem to bother the bees we put in last year, but I thought it couldn't hurt to have new stuff. Chris used the preformed plastic cells on his new hives this spring that he got from down south. He had one box kill the queen, but the other three are doing well. They are producing really heavy burr comb though in all the boxes. We just spritzed the plastic with sugar water instead of painting on honey though and it worked pretty well. A little less trouble too.
Jackie (sorry hope thats not too chaotically stream of concious)
Quote from: mairghead on May 05, 2008, 01:47:23 PM
Have you thought about using the wax foundation in strips like on the Bush farms website? Are you just going to put the Italians in a top bar hive?
They are going in a TBH.
QuoteWith my new package, I ordered some new foundation to do the strips. The foundation I put in the other hive had been in storage for almost a decade and I kind of wonder if it didn't promote the absconding of my bees. It didn't seem to bother the bees we put in last year, but I thought it couldn't hurt to have new stuff. Chris used the preformed plastic cells on his new hives this spring that he got from down south. He had one box kill the queen, but the other three are doing well. They are producing really heavy burr comb though in all the boxes. We just spritzed the plastic with sugar water instead of painting on honey though and it worked pretty well. A little less trouble too.
I've done both honey and sugar water now, and they are still absconding. :( This is why they are inside with a water drip and some shade over them until I can get a new queen/frame of brood/other miraculous occurance to fix this.