Apparently Queenless

Daddys Girl · May 03, 2008, 11:38:40 PM

I came home this afternoon and found almost all the bees out of the hive. This is the second time that I've had a problem like this since I installed the package last Saturday. There is no sign of the queen anywhere.

The syrup has been consumed somewhat, probably a quart down, but they haven't touched the pollen patty at all. Troubling.

I'm going to order another queen and see if that fixes the problem.

Michael Bush · May 04, 2008, 12:08:17 AM

The bees are where? On the front of the hive? On a limb nearby? On the ground in front of the hive?

Daddys Girl · May 04, 2008, 09:46:29 AM

They were on the fence about 2 feet away, when it was overcast and approaching dusk. There were about 15 bees left in the hive itself.

JP · May 04, 2008, 09:58:55 AM

Quote from: Daddys Girl on May 04, 2008, 09:46:29 AM
They were on the fence about 2 feet away, when it was overcast and approaching dusk. There were about 15 bees left in the hive itself.

All of your bees were on the fence? If so, your queen is most prob right there amongst them. Your hive absconded for whatever reason. Few questions: Are you painting the inside of your hives? What type foundation are you using?

Sometimes feeders will leak too much and wet the inside of the hive causing the colony to abscond.

Please answer these questions so we can assist you. If bees still on fence you want to put them back in the hive if the hive gets the green light for accomodations. You will want to cage the queen if possible and use entrance reducer to keep them in and building comb.

This prob you are having can be resolved. We are here to help.

...JP

Daddys Girl · May 04, 2008, 10:43:09 AM

Quote from: JP on May 04, 2008, 09:58:55 AM
Quote from: Daddys Girl on May 04, 2008, 09:46:29 AM
They were on the fence about 2 feet away, when it was overcast and approaching dusk. There were about 15 bees left in the hive itself.

All of your bees were on the fence? If so, your queen is most prob right there amongst them. Your hive absconded for whatever reason. Few questions: Are you painting the inside of your hives? What type foundation are you using?

All the bees were on the fence, about knee height, 2 feet from the hive.
Hive is unpainted on the inside.
Pierco foundation.
On the advice of the beek who helped me install the package, I painted some trusted local honey on the plastic, carefully gathered the girls up in a box, and put them back in the 10 frame box with 8 frames.

I find myself wishing for a 19 inch top bar or two to drop into the hive, to let them build on with the comb they built on the top super where the feeder was.

QuoteSometimes feeders will leak too much and wet the inside of the hive causing the colony to abscond.

I switched from a top entrance to a bottom entrance and went back to using the inner cover on top of the frames. The feeder is now on two shims above the hole in the inner cover. I will reinstall a top entrance once I have them established.

QuotePlease answer these questions so we can assist you. If bees still on fence you want to put them back in the hive if the hive gets the green light for accommodations. You will want to cage the queen if possible and use entrance reducer to keep them in and building comb.

If I could find the queen, it would help. What size mesh is appropriate for that? I have #8 handy and I could possibly come up with some mesh to make a queen excluder to lay on the top and bottom of the brood box. 1/4th inch hardware mesh?

We have the technology.

JP · May 04, 2008, 11:00:04 AM

Are the bees still on the fence?

...JP

Daddys Girl · May 04, 2008, 11:04:01 AM

Quote from: JP on May 04, 2008, 11:00:04 AM
Are the bees still on the fence?

No, they are in the hive again. I collected them in a box and got them into the hive last night before dark.

We also just fashioned and installed an entrance reducer with an old tomato stake. Gotta love hand tools.

JP · May 04, 2008, 11:10:00 AM

Quote from: Daddys Girl on May 04, 2008, 11:04:01 AM
Quote from: JP on May 04, 2008, 11:00:04 AM
Are the bees still on the fence?

No, they are in the hive again. I collected them in a box and got them into the hive last night before dark.

We also just fashioned and installed an entrance reducer with an old tomato stake. Gotta love hand tools.

Good. Sometimes you have to work with them to accept the set up. I've had some swarm out and had to rehive them, entrance reduce them and they settled in. Just a little extra work and patience along with some worrying is all they needed.

...JP

Daddys Girl · May 04, 2008, 11:16:09 AM

Quote from: JP on May 04, 2008, 11:10:00 AM
Good. Sometimes you have to work with them to accept the set up. I've had some swarm out and had to rehive them, entrance reduce them and they settled in. Just a little extra work and patience along with some worrying is all they needed.

So now, to keep Her Majesty from walking out of the hive with them again, what kind of hardware mesh should I use? I can get 1/4 inch about anywhere. I know that the #8 I have for the TBH is too small. Can the queen go through 1/4"?

JP · May 04, 2008, 11:38:26 AM

Quote from: Daddys Girl on May 04, 2008, 11:16:09 AM
Quote from: JP on May 04, 2008, 11:10:00 AM
Good. Sometimes you have to work with them to accept the set up. I've had some swarm out and had to rehive them, entrance reduce them and they settled in. Just a little extra work and patience along with some worrying is all they needed.

So now, to keep Her Majesty from walking out of the hive with them again, what kind of hardware mesh should I use? I can get 1/4 inch about anywhere. I know that the #8 I have for the TBH is too small. Can the queen go through 1/4"?

What do you mean by saying the #8 is too small? That you know they won't go through it?
1/4" may be too large, #8 is the standard.

...JP

Daddys Girl · May 04, 2008, 11:52:15 AM

Quote from: JP on May 04, 2008, 11:38:26 AM
What do you mean by saying the #8 is too small? That you know they won't go through it?
1/4" may be too large, #8 is the standard.

I wish to fashion a queen excluder to keep the queen in the hive, since I have yet to see her. If I can confine her to the brood box, then the bees will probably not abscond again(I hope).

Can bees get through #8?

JP · May 04, 2008, 11:53:32 AM

Quote from: Daddys Girl on May 04, 2008, 11:52:15 AM
Quote from: JP on May 04, 2008, 11:38:26 AM
What do you mean by saying the #8 is too small? That you know they won't go through it?
1/4" may be too large, #8 is the standard.

I wish to fashion a queen excluder to keep the queen in the hive, since I have yet to see her. If I can confine her to the brood box, then the bees will probably not abscond again(I hope).

Can bees get through #8?

Not through #8.

...JP

Michael Bush · May 04, 2008, 12:52:49 PM

If you want a queen excluder you'll need #5 hardware cloth. I have not seen any in a hardware store, so you'd have to order it from the bee suppliers. But it also doesn't let pollen in, so what you really need is either an "entrance guard" or an actual excluder.

I'd spray some lemon pledge in the hive next time they are out of it, or put a few drops of lemongrass essential oil on the top bars.

Daddys Girl · May 04, 2008, 03:07:35 PM

Quote from: Michael Bush on May 04, 2008, 12:52:49 PM
If you want a queen excluder you'll need #5 hardware cloth. I have not seen any in a hardware store, so you'd have to order it from the bee suppliers. But it also doesn't let pollen in, so what you really need is either an "entrance guard" or an actual excluder.

Okay. I'll see if Walter T Kelley can send me an actual excluder.

QuoteI'd spray some lemon pledge in the hive next time they are out of it, or put a few drops of lemongrass essential oil on the top bars.

Can I lay or rub Lemon Balm(Melissa) on the top bars? I assume that the lemon scent is an attractant, and I have LOTS of lemon balm at hand.

JP · May 04, 2008, 03:18:18 PM

Lemon grass smells a lot like nosanov, orientating pheremone.

...JP

Michael Bush · May 04, 2008, 05:49:03 PM

>Can I lay or rub Lemon Balm(Melissa) on the top bars?

Yes. That will work nicely too.

Daddys Girl · May 04, 2008, 08:58:03 PM

This time to the grass outside the enclosure. A big circle about a foot in diameter. Dug out the swarming box and got to work, and got most of them back in the hive. I am taking a break from the work to let them crawl up inside my swarming box before I go back out to finish up for the evening.

Now what? I need to seal them in somehow, because I really can't be picking bees up from random places in the yard every night until a new queen arrives.

This is very frustrating.

JP · May 04, 2008, 09:02:07 PM

Quote from: Daddys Girl on May 04, 2008, 08:58:03 PM
This time to the grass outside the enclosure. A big circle about a foot in diameter. Dug out the swarming box and got to work, and got most of them back in the hive. I am taking a break from the work to let them crawl up inside my swarming box before I go back out to finish up for the evening.

Now what? I need to seal them in somehow, because I really can't be picking bees up from random places in the yard every night until a new queen arrives.

This is very frustrating.

You most likely do have a queen. Why do you want to replace her?

...JP

Daddys Girl · May 04, 2008, 09:04:13 PM

Quote from: JP on May 04, 2008, 09:02:07 PM
You most likely do have a queen. Why do you want to replace her?

Right now, I need to keep these bees in the hive. I am losing bees every time I pick them out of the grass/off the fence or wherever.

Daddys Girl · May 04, 2008, 10:33:57 PM

For tonight. I made two cleats of 1 by 2, and cut a strip of #8 mesh to create a 6 inch opening at the base of the hive to keep them in until I can fashion something better. Perhaps with nothing better to do, they will draw comb until I figure out what is going on.