My KTBH is was getting robbed again this morning. Fortunately, I was home to stop it. The hive is in my backyard and in full view. The entrance is relatively small, but so is the colony. I think the bees are feral and not from my other (Lang) hive. I live along a creek and it supports a variety of wildlife from alligators to otters and more.
Is there anything I can do to pevent them from getting robbed in case I am not around in the future if it happens?
(http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab218/Sunchaser01/DSCN0046.jpg)
(Not a photo of robbing)
Have fun!
I saw this picture in opening in your first set of pictures and thought that is an awfully large opening. It would be fine for a large hive but not a small one. Try reducing it down, at least temporally, to 3/8" by 3/8".
A week ago I inspected 2 of my weaker hives and there was no food in them even though there seemed to be a flow on. I closed the entrances down to a medium opening and fed them. On Wednesday I checked on them and the smaller hive had a little food and larger on had none but a lot of brood. We decided to feed them again and reduced the entrance down to 1/2" x 3/8". 30 minutes later it looked like a major flow was on on all of my hives. The 2 hives we fed had bees packed around the 2 small openings and bees were coming and going. I closed both of them with some wood. I took the top off of them to look through the vented screen and both of them are full of robbing bees fighting to get out. I am keeping them in there for 3 full days, per another thread on this site, to strengthen these 2 hives. My buddy called an hour ago and said they seem a lot calmer. We will let them out tomorrow. Hopefully they will stay put.
Jim
Thanks for the reply Sawdust, now that the robbing has abated (closed the entrance entirely, bottom is screened), I did exactly that.
This is my first (and only) TBH and I am learning a lot, being new to the hobby. I am currently contemplating moving the entrance from the end where it is, to somewhere along the side. I don't know if I should, or whether to put it high or along the bottom. The core of the colony is on four or five bars about four bars back from the entrance. Ten bars total in the partition. There has not been much development on the first three or four bars.
Any advice is appreciated.
Having fun!
(http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab218/Sunchaser01/DSCN0366.jpg)
Bar #6
Use a robber screen !!
Bee-Bop
Try putting a 1X2 board on the landing board in front of the entrance. Robbing bees seem to hover in front of the hive being robbed and then fly straight into the entrance. Placing a blocking board in front an inch or two from the entrance causes them to land on the blocking board and crawl over and into the entrance. This allows the defenders to better protect the hive. It is really a way to reduce the entrance while keeping it open for ventilation. Did this today on one of my hives and the robbing stopped within 2 hours. (I think) It has been 90 degrees or so tha past couple weeks and I do not want to fully reduce the entrance and reduce ventilation.
We are in Roseburg, Oregon. Had a terribly wet, cold spring and we have taken 6 gallons of honey off our two hives with our major harvest (we hope) to come the end of September. Tried drilling ventilation holes in the top super but the girls go mad filling up with propolis. Bees know best.
I open the 2 hives up after keeping them locked up for 3 days. I now have a lot more bees in these hives but within an hour it started up again on both hives. They are both SBB and vented tops and I only left enough room for one bee to enter or leave but I still have the same problem. A new beek friend has about 70 hives says it is because they put out a stress pheromone that draws in the robbers. There must be something wrong with the queen. I have only had these queens for about a month. I will have to make up a couple of robber screens. And give them a chance to get started.
Jim
Quote from: sawdstmakr on August 29, 2011, 01:06:14 PM
I open the 2 hives up after keeping them locked up for 3 days. I now have a lot more bees in these hives but within an hour it started up again on both hives.
Jim
Are you sure this is robbing? I'm doubtful that after three days it would start on both hives within an hour. I've noticed that when you have a small entrance on a large hive, the behavior around the entrance looks like robbing. There is lots of jockeying for position to get in and out of the hive and there are lots of bees running around on the front of the hive. Also, there will be lots of orienting flights from bees that would have oriented over the last 3 days but did not have an opportunity. Looks like robbing.
Try opening up the hives to allow 5 bees to enter at once. I bet your issues go away quickly.
quote author=FRAMEshift link=topic=34507.msg285063#msg285063 date=1314634755]
[quote author=sawdstmakr link=topic=34507.msg285057#msg285057 d
I open the 2 hives up after keeping them locked up for 3 days. I now have a lot more bees in these hives but within an hour it started up again on both hives.
Jim
[/quote]
Are you sure this is robbing? I'm doubtful that after three days it would start on both hives within an hour. I've noticed that when you have a small entrance on a large hive, the behavior around the entrance looks like robbing. There is lots of jockeying for position to get in and out of the hive and there are lots of bees running around on the front of the hive. Also, there will be lots of orienting flights from bees that would have oriented over the last 3 days but did not have an opportunity. Looks like robbing.
Try opening up the hives to allow 5 bees to enter at once. I bet your issues go away quickly.
[
I am having the same problem with a 2 bee opening. When there is feed in the feeder inside of the hive there is a lot of confusion at the entrance(it only takes about 30minutes untill it starts) untill the feeder is empty then it goes back to the weak hive activity. So I put a bee escape on the entrance to let the robbers in but not let them leave hoping they would help build up the weak hive. I moved the weak hive about 100yds away from the strong hives but they find it real quick.
Quote from: nella on August 29, 2011, 01:40:21 PM
I am having the same problem with a 2 bee opening. When there is feed in the feeder inside of the hive there is a lot of confusion at the entrance(it only takes about 30minutes untill it starts) untill the feeder is empty then it goes back to the weak hive activity. So I put a bee escape on the entrance to let the robbers in but not let them leave hoping they would help build up the weak hive. I moved the weak hive about 100yds away from the strong hives but they find it real quick.
If there is robbing going on, I would stop the feeding. Feed strong hives and move the capped stores to the weak hives. I understand your strategy of trapping the robbers, but remember that robbers can do a lot of damage, including tearing up comb and even killing the queen, before they have time to change allegiance.
I agree with Frameshift, I've tried trapping robbers before, but it didn't work in my limited trials. I believe it is a bad idea. Best to try to keep robbing to a minimum. I've tried the screens and the 9mm x 9mm entrances and they work to a degree, but nothing has been fool proof in my bee keeping.
At risk of being accused of treating my bees like aquarium fishes :(, I have started experimenting with feeding my small nucs with dry sugar and wetting that down with water/syrup at night. That gives the small nucs all night long to pack the food away (and eat) in peace. The open syrup is gone by morning so it doesn't' attract a ton of robbers. I still use a 9mm x 9mm entrance on my small nucs.
Quote from: FRAMEshift on August 29, 2011, 01:19:15 PM
Quote from: sawdstmakr on August 29, 2011, 01:06:14 PM
I open the 2 hives up after keeping them locked up for 3 days. I now have a lot more bees in these hives but within an hour it started up again on both hives.
Jim
Are you sure this is robbing? I'm doubtful that after three days it would start on both hives within an hour. I've noticed that when you have a small entrance on a large hive, the behavior around the entrance looks like robbing. There is lots of jockeying for position to get in and out of the hive and there are lots of bees running around on the front of the hive. Also, there will be lots of orienting flights from bees that would have oriented over the last 3 days but did not have an opportunity. Looks like robbing.
I will need to rig up a place to place the dry sugar.
Try opening up the hives to allow 5 bees to enter at once. I bet your issues go away quickly.
I sure hope you are right. I haven't opened up these hives since we locked them in for 3 days. A lot of the bees from both boxes couldn't fly, they came out of the box and fell in the grass. Wouldn't that mean they are full of honey?
I'm planning on taking the 2 hives out to the farm. If there are no stores in them I will have to feed them until either the Spanish Needle starts or the Golden Rod blooms. Last year at this time we had a lot of Spanish Needle but I have not seen of it nor has any one that I have talked to.
I will try opening them up tonight.
I will need to rig up a place to place the dry sugar.
The only reason I was feeding them was that the one hive was stripped clean and the other on had very few stores with lots of brood.
Jim
Quote from: sawdstmakr on August 30, 2011, 12:51:26 PM
A lot of the bees from both boxes couldn't fly, they came out of the box and fell in the grass. Wouldn't that mean they are full of honey?
They may be old or sick. Did the bees have a water source during the 3 days they were locked up? Are there stores left?
Quote from: FRAMEshift on August 30, 2011, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: sawdstmakr on August 30, 2011, 12:51:26 PM
A lot of the bees from both boxes couldn't fly, they came out of the box and fell in the grass. Wouldn't that mean they are full of honey?
They may be old or sick. Did the bees have a water source during the 3 days they were locked up? Are there stores left?
They had 1 to 1 sugar water. I haven't opened them up yet, planning on checking it tonight.
Quote from: sawdstmakr on August 30, 2011, 01:04:49 PM
They had 1 to 1 sugar water. I haven't opened them up yet, planning on checking it tonight.
Sawdust, how does this hive look now? Did you open it up?
Quote from: FRAMEshift on August 31, 2011, 06:42:04 PM
Quote from: sawdstmakr on August 30, 2011, 01:04:49 PM
They had 1 to 1 sugar water. I haven't opened them up yet, planning on checking it tonight.
Sawdust, how does this hive look now? Did you open it up?
Let me try this again. System locked up when I answered it yesterday.
The hive on the left looked pretty empty from the top, so we started pulling frames. Had no food in the hive, no Q, about 500 very calm bees. Took the hive apart and they moved in with the other hive. The other one look like it has about 4 frames of bees, looking through the top screen. We didn't bother it. On Sunday I plan on inspecting it and if it is Q right I will close it up after dark. On Monday I plan on removing the honey from the other 2 hives. Then move my strongest hive to the left and placing this one where the strong hive was. That should fill this hive up. If the queen is half way decent she will fill the hive with eggs. The weather is just starting to cool down, just below 90 degrees. hopefully they can use the fall flow to fill the hive with food.
Jim
Did the signs of robbing stop when you opened the hive? I'm having trouble remembering which hive is which.
Would some one be kind enough to explain the concept of a robber screen to me please?
BTW, is there a thread robbing screen? :shock:
Having so much fun!
Quote from: Sundog on September 03, 2011, 08:58:59 PM
Would some one be kind enough to explain the concept of a robber screen to me please?
BTW, is there a thread robbing screen? :shock:
Having so much fun!
A robber screen covers the entrance and has it's own entrance into the screened in area in a different place. The bees who live in a hive learn where the secondary entrance is and will go into the screen entrance in order to get to the real entrance. The robbers do not know where the entrance is and will just follow the marker scents coming through the screen. That leaves them always up against the screen and unable to enter.
Thank you, I will knock something together and give it a try. The hive was getting hit again earlier today in spite of the small entrance (3/8 x 3/8) of late. I closed it off until after dark. The hive has a screened bottom and I could hear the clanking of the bees wrestling.
Having fun!
Next day...
How does this look? Is the entrance large enough? How long will it take for the colony bees to figure it out? There seems to be much confusion, hopfully, it's the robbers that are the most confused. Clouds of bees just out of the picture, many are foragers with loaded bags. I wonder where from.
Still having fun!
(http://i865.photobucket.com/albums/ab218/Sunchaser01/Bee%20Stuff/DSCN0454.jpg)
Quotemany are foragers with loaded bags. I wonder where from
Brazilian Pepper
and a couple more I can think of at the moment,but the pepper will last until Nov.
Tommyt
Quote from: Sundog on September 03, 2011, 11:29:20 PM
How does this look? Is the entrance large enough? How long will it take for the colony bees to figure it out?
The design looks good. You see that there are lots of bees on the screen in front of the entrance and not at the robber screen entrance. That's how it should be if the robbers are being fooled. Are some bees coming and going from the small screen entrance? If they are reorienting as they come out, then everything is right.
This is a workable robber screen;
(http://i281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/MrMurrell/th_100_0258.jpg) (http://s281.photobucket.com/albums/kk235/MrMurrell/?action=view¤t=100_0258.jpg)
Notice it is open all the way across the top !
AS I'm sure you have read, the robbers come to the bottom were the smell of the honey is !
The hive bees come out of the hive climb the screen and go on their way, they soon learn to land at the top, go down and enter the hive.
All the while the robbers are still outside smelling the honey.
After about 2/3 days the robbers haven't got any honey, so they go on about there other business.
Just to make it clear, the side you see goes against the hive, & duct tape is marvelous for attaching it to the hive box for a few days. [ Been asked about that before ]
Bee-Bop
There's always got to be one in the crowd that has to be different.....so here goes.
The logic that the robbers are fooled by focusing on the scent of honey at the bottom of a robber screen seems flawed to me. Maybe I'm thinking too much like a human again (it happens), but that logic doesn't make sense to me and when I used robber screens it didn't seem to make sense to my bees either.
If screening a hole is all that is needed to keep robbers at bay, then I should never have any robber problems in my nucs because they have a screened top vent and screened top for that matter. Heat and scents rise with the warm air and exit through my top screened vents (Chimney effect). If anything, this chimney effect should be sucking air (and scents) IN from the bottom and expelling them OUT at the top. I should have robbers by the billions converging on my top vents and leaving my nuc bottom entrances alone. Unfortunately that is not what happens in my bee yard.
When I used robber screens, I DID have bees stuck on the other side of the screen trying to get in. Unfortunately, I'm convinced at lot of those bees were my house bees!
I have stuck with 9mmx9mm entrances and they have worked in my 2 frame nucs next to a bunch of strong hives. Yes there is some robbing, so I feed the nucs at night. The nucs are gaining in weight, so the system is working, at least in my bee yard. My nucs are also gaining in pollen, so I know my field bees are not being blocked out of my nucs either.
After looking at the hive screen Picture again, I have a question?
If it were robbing shouldn't there be many,many more bees than what is seen?
Looks to be just confused house bees coming back from the field.
WAS this Screen put on after dark??
If so they will reorient and know how to return
If you put it on after dark, I'm incorrect of the observation
Tommyt
I looked again those robbers have POLLEN ???
I don't think they are crooks :-D
Quote from: Tommyt on September 04, 2011, 03:09:45 PMI looked again those robbers have POLLEN ???
I don't think they are crooks :-D
I thought the same thing (and said so in my post), and no, I did NOT put it on after dark, I put it on around 9:30 this AM. I took the screen back off and put the 3/8x3/8 reducer back on.
After thinking about it, I guess the top would be the better choice for an entrance, since the bees instictively go up. I will keep an eye on the hive over the weekend, and if the robbing persists, I will put the screen on at night (nobody told me) after I cut an entrance in the top. I can see both my hives clearly from my windows.
Making kindling (wish I had a fireplace) and having fun!
TommyT has good eyes!
In a small colony, there are simply not that many field bees. Heck, my 2 frame nucs probably only have 2500 bees in total in them. Only a fraction of those bees will be field bees that will need to go in and out of the hive to collect pollen, nectar, and water. If you keep your entrance hole down to 1 bee, I believe that is still way bigger than a small colony even needs.
How long could it take 1 bee to crawl through a 9mmx9mm hole? Can't be more than 2 seconds? That would allow up to 30 bees coming and going every minute. That is far more bees than I typically see coming and going from a small nuc earlier in the season when robbing isn't such an issue. Typically I only see 5 to 10 bees/minute coming and going from a small nuc.
If you've got adequate ventilation in your hive from sources other than the entrance, I see little downside in keeping the entrance at 1 bee size until you have at least 3 or 4 frames of bees in there.