Getting robbed (again)

Sundog · August 26, 2011, 11:46:57 AM

My KTBH is was getting robbed again this morning. Fortunately, I was home to stop it. The hive is in my backyard and in full view. The entrance is relatively small, but so is the colony. I think the bees are feral and not from my other (Lang) hive. I live along a creek and it supports a variety of wildlife from alligators to otters and more.

Is there anything I can do to pevent them from getting robbed in case I am not around in the future if it happens?

(Not a photo of robbing)

Have fun!

BeeMaster2 · August 26, 2011, 12:44:53 PM

I saw this picture in opening in your first set of pictures and thought that is an awfully large opening. It would be fine for a large hive but not a small one. Try reducing it down, at least temporally, to 3/8" by 3/8".
A week ago I inspected 2 of my weaker hives and there was no food in them even though there seemed to be a flow on. I closed the entrances down to a medium opening and fed them. On Wednesday I checked on them and the smaller hive had a little food and larger on had none but a lot of brood. We decided to feed them again and reduced the entrance down to 1/2" x 3/8". 30 minutes later it looked like a major flow was on on all of my hives. The 2 hives we fed had bees packed around the 2 small openings and bees were coming and going. I closed both of them with some wood. I took the top off of them to look through the vented screen and both of them are full of robbing bees fighting to get out. I am keeping them in there for 3 full days, per another thread on this site, to strengthen these 2 hives. My buddy called an hour ago and said they seem a lot calmer. We will let them out tomorrow. Hopefully they will stay put.
Jim

Sundog · August 26, 2011, 01:19:18 PM

Thanks for the reply Sawdust, now that the robbing has abated (closed the entrance entirely, bottom is screened), I did exactly that.

This is my first (and only) TBH and I am learning a lot, being new to the hobby. I am currently contemplating moving the entrance from the end where it is, to somewhere along the side. I don't know if I should, or whether to put it high or along the bottom. The core of the colony is on four or five bars about four bars back from the entrance. Ten bars total in the partition. There has not been much development on the first three or four bars.

Any advice is appreciated.

Having fun!

Bar #6

Bee-Bop · August 26, 2011, 07:38:49 PM

Use a robber screen !!

Bee-Bop

Bee r · August 28, 2011, 12:59:33 AM

Try putting a 1X2 board on the landing board in front of the entrance. Robbing bees seem to hover in front of the hive being robbed and then fly straight into the entrance. Placing a blocking board in front an inch or two from the entrance causes them to land on the blocking board and crawl over and into the entrance. This allows the defenders to better protect the hive. It is really a way to reduce the entrance while keeping it open for ventilation. Did this today on one of my hives and the robbing stopped within 2 hours. (I think) It has been 90 degrees or so tha past couple weeks and I do not want to fully reduce the entrance and reduce ventilation.
We are in Roseburg, Oregon. Had a terribly wet, cold spring and we have taken 6 gallons of honey off our two hives with our major harvest (we hope) to come the end of September. Tried drilling ventilation holes in the top super but the girls go mad filling up with propolis. Bees know best.

BeeMaster2 · August 29, 2011, 01:06:14 PM

I open the 2 hives up after keeping them locked up for 3 days. I now have a lot more bees in these hives but within an hour it started up again on both hives. They are both SBB and vented tops and I only left enough room for one bee to enter or leave but I still have the same problem. A new beek friend has about 70 hives says it is because they put out a stress pheromone that draws in the robbers. There must be something wrong with the queen. I have only had these queens for about a month. I will have to make up a couple of robber screens. And give them a chance to get started.
Jim

FRAMEshift · August 29, 2011, 01:19:15 PM

Quote from: sawdstmakr on August 29, 2011, 01:06:14 PM
I open the 2 hives up after keeping them locked up for 3 days. I now have a lot more bees in these hives but within an hour it started up again on both hives.
Jim

Are you sure this is robbing? I'm doubtful that after three days it would start on both hives within an hour. I've noticed that when you have a small entrance on a large hive, the behavior around the entrance looks like robbing. There is lots of jockeying for position to get in and out of the hive and there are lots of bees running around on the front of the hive. Also, there will be lots of orienting flights from bees that would have oriented over the last 3 days but did not have an opportunity. Looks like robbing.

Try opening up the hives to allow 5 bees to enter at once. I bet your issues go away quickly.

nella · August 29, 2011, 01:40:21 PM

quote author=FRAMEshift link=topic=34507.msg285063#msg285063 date=1314634755]
[quote author=sawdstmakr link=topic=34507.msg285057#msg285057 d
I open the 2 hives up after keeping them locked up for 3 days. I now have a lot more bees in these hives but within an hour it started up again on both hives.
Jim
[/quote]
Are you sure this is robbing? I'm doubtful that after three days it would start on both hives within an hour. I've noticed that when you have a small entrance on a large hive, the behavior around the entrance looks like robbing. There is lots of jockeying for position to get in and out of the hive and there are lots of bees running around on the front of the hive. Also, there will be lots of orienting flights from bees that would have oriented over the last 3 days but did not have an opportunity. Looks like robbing.
Try opening up the hives to allow 5 bees to enter at once. I bet your issues go away quickly.
[

I am having the same problem with a 2 bee opening. When there is feed in the feeder inside of the hive there is a lot of confusion at the entrance(it only takes about 30minutes untill it starts) untill the feeder is empty then it goes back to the weak hive activity. So I put a bee escape on the entrance to let the robbers in but not let them leave hoping they would help build up the weak hive. I moved the weak hive about 100yds away from the strong hives but they find it real quick.

FRAMEshift · August 29, 2011, 03:04:26 PM

Quote from: nella on August 29, 2011, 01:40:21 PM
I am having the same problem with a 2 bee opening. When there is feed in the feeder inside of the hive there is a lot of confusion at the entrance(it only takes about 30minutes untill it starts) untill the feeder is empty then it goes back to the weak hive activity. So I put a bee escape on the entrance to let the robbers in but not let them leave hoping they would help build up the weak hive. I moved the weak hive about 100yds away from the strong hives but they find it real quick.

If there is robbing going on, I would stop the feeding. Feed strong hives and move the capped stores to the weak hives. I understand your strategy of trapping the robbers, but remember that robbers can do a lot of damage, including tearing up comb and even killing the queen, before they have time to change allegiance.

BlueBee · August 29, 2011, 05:22:13 PM

I agree with Frameshift, I've tried trapping robbers before, but it didn't work in my limited trials. I believe it is a bad idea. Best to try to keep robbing to a minimum. I've tried the screens and the 9mm x 9mm entrances and they work to a degree, but nothing has been fool proof in my bee keeping.

At risk of being accused of treating my bees like aquarium fishes :(, I have started experimenting with feeding my small nucs with dry sugar and wetting that down with water/syrup at night. That gives the small nucs all night long to pack the food away (and eat) in peace. The open syrup is gone by morning so it doesn't' attract a ton of robbers. I still use a 9mm x 9mm entrance on my small nucs.

BeeMaster2 · August 30, 2011, 12:51:26 PM

Quote from: FRAMEshift on August 29, 2011, 01:19:15 PM
Quote from: sawdstmakr on August 29, 2011, 01:06:14 PM
I open the 2 hives up after keeping them locked up for 3 days. I now have a lot more bees in these hives but within an hour it started up again on both hives.
Jim

Are you sure this is robbing? I'm doubtful that after three days it would start on both hives within an hour. I've noticed that when you have a small entrance on a large hive, the behavior around the entrance looks like robbing. There is lots of jockeying for position to get in and out of the hive and there are lots of bees running around on the front of the hive. Also, there will be lots of orienting flights from bees that would have oriented over the last 3 days but did not have an opportunity. Looks like robbing.
I will need to rig up a place to place the dry sugar.

Try opening up the hives to allow 5 bees to enter at once. I bet your issues go away quickly.

I sure hope you are right. I haven't opened up these hives since we locked them in for 3 days. A lot of the bees from both boxes couldn't fly, they came out of the box and fell in the grass. Wouldn't that mean they are full of honey?
I'm planning on taking the 2 hives out to the farm. If there are no stores in them I will have to feed them until either the Spanish Needle starts or the Golden Rod blooms. Last year at this time we had a lot of Spanish Needle but I have not seen of it nor has any one that I have talked to.
I will try opening them up tonight.

I will need to rig up a place to place the dry sugar.

The only reason I was feeding them was that the one hive was stripped clean and the other on had very few stores with lots of brood.

Jim

FRAMEshift · August 30, 2011, 12:57:37 PM

Quote from: sawdstmakr on August 30, 2011, 12:51:26 PM
A lot of the bees from both boxes couldn't fly, they came out of the box and fell in the grass. Wouldn't that mean they are full of honey?

They may be old or sick. Did the bees have a water source during the 3 days they were locked up? Are there stores left?

BeeMaster2 · August 30, 2011, 01:04:49 PM

Quote from: FRAMEshift on August 30, 2011, 12:57:37 PM
Quote from: sawdstmakr on August 30, 2011, 12:51:26 PM
A lot of the bees from both boxes couldn't fly, they came out of the box and fell in the grass. Wouldn't that mean they are full of honey?
They may be old or sick. Did the bees have a water source during the 3 days they were locked up? Are there stores left?

They had 1 to 1 sugar water. I haven't opened them up yet, planning on checking it tonight.

FRAMEshift · August 31, 2011, 06:42:04 PM

Quote from: sawdstmakr on August 30, 2011, 01:04:49 PM
They had 1 to 1 sugar water. I haven't opened them up yet, planning on checking it tonight.

Sawdust, how does this hive look now? Did you open it up?

BeeMaster2 · September 02, 2011, 12:52:54 PM

Quote from: FRAMEshift on August 31, 2011, 06:42:04 PM
Quote from: sawdstmakr on August 30, 2011, 01:04:49 PM
They had 1 to 1 sugar water. I haven't opened them up yet, planning on checking it tonight.
Sawdust, how does this hive look now? Did you open it up?

Let me try this again. System locked up when I answered it yesterday.

The hive on the left looked pretty empty from the top, so we started pulling frames. Had no food in the hive, no Q, about 500 very calm bees. Took the hive apart and they moved in with the other hive. The other one look like it has about 4 frames of bees, looking through the top screen. We didn't bother it. On Sunday I plan on inspecting it and if it is Q right I will close it up after dark. On Monday I plan on removing the honey from the other 2 hives. Then move my strongest hive to the left and placing this one where the strong hive was. That should fill this hive up. If the queen is half way decent she will fill the hive with eggs. The weather is just starting to cool down, just below 90 degrees. hopefully they can use the fall flow to fill the hive with food.
Jim

FRAMEshift · September 02, 2011, 03:13:14 PM

Did the signs of robbing stop when you opened the hive? I'm having trouble remembering which hive is which.

Sundog · September 03, 2011, 08:58:59 PM

Would some one be kind enough to explain the concept of a robber screen to me please?

BTW, is there a thread robbing screen? :shock:

Having so much fun!

FRAMEshift · September 03, 2011, 09:36:45 PM

Quote from: Sundog on September 03, 2011, 08:58:59 PM
Would some one be kind enough to explain the concept of a robber screen to me please?

BTW, is there a thread robbing screen? :shock:

Having so much fun!

A robber screen covers the entrance and has it's own entrance into the screened in area in a different place. The bees who live in a hive learn where the secondary entrance is and will go into the screen entrance in order to get to the real entrance. The robbers do not know where the entrance is and will just follow the marker scents coming through the screen. That leaves them always up against the screen and unable to enter.

Sundog · September 03, 2011, 11:29:20 PM

Thank you, I will knock something together and give it a try. The hive was getting hit again earlier today in spite of the small entrance (3/8 x 3/8) of late. I closed it off until after dark. The hive has a screened bottom and I could hear the clanking of the bees wrestling.

Having fun!

Next day...

How does this look? Is the entrance large enough? How long will it take for the colony bees to figure it out? There seems to be much confusion, hopfully, it's the robbers that are the most confused. Clouds of bees just out of the picture, many are foragers with loaded bags. I wonder where from.

Still having fun!

Tommyt · September 04, 2011, 01:38:45 PM

Quotemany are foragers with loaded bags. I wonder where from

Brazilian Pepper
and a couple more I can think of at the moment,but the pepper will last until Nov.

Tommyt