If you can get your hands on hives that survived a year or so without treatment would it be worth the investment and does this likely mean that they are good breeding stock for varoa resistant bees?
I have 4 hives that are about 15 years old with bees in them the whole time. Then only real change was removing old black brood frames, moving the bottom box to the top and putting in new frames. My hives sit in full sun with a wind break to the back of the hives. Most of my other hives have had new bees put in about every 4-5 years (I do a good cleaning of the hives when I need to replace the bees.) -Mike
Why would you rotate the boxes?
During the winter, the bees will move up as they consume the honey in the bottom box.
Jim
Is it possible not to QAV ?
This one was not I am 100% sure of it. Our bees are starting to fly now and it has survived with no treatment.
I would say they are probably better than most bees. Obviously, the longer they live without treatments, the more proven they are. Time will give you the answers you are looking for. I'd say they are doing something right, and definitely worth propagating from. Good luck.
Quote from: bwallace23350 on January 26, 2017, 03:07:28 PM
If you can get your hands on hives that survived a year or so without treatment would it be worth the investment and does this likely mean that they are good breeding stock for varoa resistant bees?
I think the first successful year is the year of accomplishment. It tells you that you didn't do enough things wrong to kill them and they had what it takes to make it. Unfortunately, it doesn't guarantee their survival for the next year especially when you have gained confidence and start doing more to them. It most certainly is the ones you want to propagate and make more but you also want to see what they will do for production in that second year. I would suggest not going crazy on the splitting for this first successful year. Grafting is a possibility if you want to get that involved.
Well I lost one hive so I am going to split with these. Now to learn to do a split.
Quote from: bwallace23350 on January 28, 2017, 05:30:13 PM
Well I lost one hive so I am going to split with these. Now to learn to do a split.
doing the spring walkawaysplit works good. plenty of vids on doing it to.
Thanks
Isn't the second year usually the Varroa teller... unless your package was loaded from start. Nucs are a different story
Why would the 2nd year without treatment be the teller
Quote from: bwallace23350 on January 28, 2017, 10:46:47 PM
Why would the 2nd year without treatment be the teller
Some will say that the mites gradually build up as time goes on and the hive eventually crashes. Some say it is the third year. Some say it is the first year in the fall. What happens to your bees could be any of the above or none of the above. Mites are only one stressor that the bees face but not the only one. The beekeeper can be a huge stress on the hive and the lack of forage can be a big stress on the hive. And let's not forget an upredictable winter. Some things are in your control and some things aren't. If you get a package or a nuc and the queen gets replaced in the first month this puts the hive at a big disadvantage because now it is two months behind when the season is just over three months long. The demand for bees is just that, demand which will be filled by suppliers. Unfortunately what you get may not be any good. But most people will tell you your hive died from mites the minute you ask the question, "Why did they die?"
Quote from: bwallace23350 on January 28, 2017, 10:46:47 PM
Why would the 2nd year without treatment be the teller
As acebird said a lot of different factors now. But I always heard an established hive two years or older was more prone to mites issues due to most likely have more drone brood...
May be nothing to that thought in today's world of all the varroa transmitted viruses that could affect a hive early on.
Well my other thought to replace my lost hive is to trap some ferals that live in around my other bees. I know that these have not been treated for years and are likely the wild bees of a bee keeper who died over 10 years ago.
Quote from: bwallace23350 on January 29, 2017, 10:00:28 PM
Well my other thought to replace my lost hive is to trap some ferals that live in around my other bees.
I haven't had any luck with that but the next best thing is to split a hive and let the queenless side make their own queen. Then you get a blend of production queen with feral drones. It doesn't always work but the more hives you have the more hives will make it through winter. A simple numbers game.
True. With my one hive that made it I could do a split. I guess there is a chance they could mate with my bought drones but I would know real quick if they mated with the wilds as they are much darker than the bought Italians.
Just checked this hive out. It looks strong. Hopefully in the next few days I can open it up and take a look. Just from a view this hive had lots of activity.
Quote from: bwallace23350 on January 30, 2017, 09:58:13 AM
True. With my one hive that made it I could do a split. I guess there is a chance they could mate with my bought drones but I would know real quick if they mated with the wilds as they are much darker than the bought Italians.
Your virgin queens will go a lot farther than your drones will just to try to make sure she does not mate with drones from her mother.
Jim
I only have two hives so I hope they find those wild bees .
b wallace... and you are locate where? Update profile :wink:
Central Alabama around Montgomery.
Quote from: bwallace23350 on January 30, 2017, 04:09:03 PM
Central Alabama around Montgomery.
Do you know how to update your location in profile... I am sure you are aware, sometimes beekeeping is about location
To the best of my recollection I bought my first hives in 2011. The old beek that had them I had visited with the summer before. The spring of 2011 I stopped by a few times with no answer at the door, I found out he had died. I asked and got in touch with his daughter, she sold the bees that were still there to me. There were three hives, I still have one of those Hives in the same spot as when they first arrived here. They have never been queenless, and this past year was one of their best production years. I don't know how long the older fellow had had them and I think he may have treated them, not sure, But I have not treated any of my bees for mites as of yet. The three hives were single deeps with a shallow super on top when I got them. The brood boxes were in bad shape, I had built new ones before I picked the up. When I got em home I put them in new double deep 10 frame brood boxes, using the frames they were in and 10 frames with no foundation just a paint stir stick cut down the middle as a starter strip. Every other one was foundationless and then their drawn out frames. Got to rambling again.
Good luck to you all and your bees
Joe D
6 hives that are in there 5th winter nothing done to them other than a coat of paint and steal the surplus. 13 swarms caught last year 1 dead as of today and it was the 1st swarm caught
A year means they can get through the winter, which is a good quality. It doesn't mean much about Varroa. Two means more. Three is more than the treaters say they can survive without Varroa treatments. So three would mean something. I haven't treated any of mine in 14 years...
Interesting Mr. Bush. So when should an untreated hive crash in the 2nd year if Varroa is a problem? From my previous understanding Varroa killed the hives in the winter for osme reason or another.
If they are going to crash from Varroa usually they crash in late fall or early winter.
Why do they tend to crash around then?
Large amount of brood all summer that allow the Varroa to breed, and as hive numbers are naturally reduced for wintering the Varroa overpower the hive.
just my best guess
winner winner chicken dinner. you get the booby prize.
:tongue: :tongue: :tongue:
>Why do they tend to crash around then?
If you plot the population of bees vs the population of Varroa over the bee season, the Varroa are increasing while the bees are increasing in the spring. Then in the summer it levels out a little bit, meaning the bee population is staying steady and the Varroa population is increasing slightly. Come fall, though the Varroa who have been hiding (and reproducing) in the capped cells have less and less brood to infest so they infest them at higher levels (several Varroa to a cell rather than one or none) and this damages the larvae being fed on and makes them shorter lived. So while the population of bees is dwindling, the population of Varroa is about the same making a much higher ratio of Varroa to bees and an even higher ration of Varroa to brood.
Well when put like that it makes perfect sense.