Survivor Hives

bwallace23350 · January 26, 2017, 03:07:28 PM

If you can get your hands on hives that survived a year or so without treatment would it be worth the investment and does this likely mean that they are good breeding stock for varoa resistant bees?

mikecva · January 26, 2017, 03:32:39 PM

I have 4 hives that are about 15 years old with bees in them the whole time. Then only real change was removing old black brood frames, moving the bottom box to the top and putting in new frames. My hives sit in full sun with a wind break to the back of the hives. Most of my other hives have had new bees put in about every 4-5 years (I do a good cleaning of the hives when I need to replace the bees.) -Mike

bwallace23350 · January 26, 2017, 05:43:55 PM

Why would you rotate the boxes?

BeeMaster2 · January 26, 2017, 06:33:29 PM

During the winter, the bees will move up as they consume the honey in the bottom box.
Jim

MikeyN.C. · January 26, 2017, 10:22:49 PM

Is it possible not to QAV ?

bwallace23350 · January 26, 2017, 11:50:36 PM

This one was not I am 100% sure of it. Our bees are starting to fly now and it has survived with no treatment.

nordak · January 27, 2017, 11:25:01 PM

I would say they are probably better than most bees. Obviously, the longer they live without treatments, the more proven they are. Time will give you the answers you are looking for. I'd say they are doing something right, and definitely worth propagating from. Good luck.

Acebird · January 28, 2017, 08:46:43 AM

Quote from: bwallace23350 on January 26, 2017, 03:07:28 PM
If you can get your hands on hives that survived a year or so without treatment would it be worth the investment and does this likely mean that they are good breeding stock for varoa resistant bees?

I think the first successful year is the year of accomplishment. It tells you that you didn't do enough things wrong to kill them and they had what it takes to make it. Unfortunately, it doesn't guarantee their survival for the next year especially when you have gained confidence and start doing more to them. It most certainly is the ones you want to propagate and make more but you also want to see what they will do for production in that second year. I would suggest not going crazy on the splitting for this first successful year. Grafting is a possibility if you want to get that involved.

bwallace23350 · January 28, 2017, 05:30:13 PM

Well I lost one hive so I am going to split with these. Now to learn to do a split.

divemaster1963 · January 28, 2017, 06:39:43 PM

Quote from: bwallace23350 on January 28, 2017, 05:30:13 PM
Well I lost one hive so I am going to split with these. Now to learn to do a split.

doing the spring walkawaysplit works good. plenty of vids on doing it to.

bwallace23350 · January 28, 2017, 10:06:15 PM

Thanks

sc-bee · January 28, 2017, 10:38:45 PM

Isn't the second year usually the Varroa teller... unless your package was loaded from start. Nucs are a different story

bwallace23350 · January 28, 2017, 10:46:47 PM

Why would the 2nd year without treatment be the teller

Acebird · January 29, 2017, 04:50:23 PM

Quote from: bwallace23350 on January 28, 2017, 10:46:47 PM
Why would the 2nd year without treatment be the teller

Some will say that the mites gradually build up as time goes on and the hive eventually crashes. Some say it is the third year. Some say it is the first year in the fall. What happens to your bees could be any of the above or none of the above. Mites are only one stressor that the bees face but not the only one. The beekeeper can be a huge stress on the hive and the lack of forage can be a big stress on the hive. And let's not forget an upredictable winter. Some things are in your control and some things aren't. If you get a package or a nuc and the queen gets replaced in the first month this puts the hive at a big disadvantage because now it is two months behind when the season is just over three months long. The demand for bees is just that, demand which will be filled by suppliers. Unfortunately what you get may not be any good. But most people will tell you your hive died from mites the minute you ask the question, "Why did they die?"

sc-bee · January 29, 2017, 08:38:47 PM

Quote from: bwallace23350 on January 28, 2017, 10:46:47 PM
Why would the 2nd year without treatment be the teller

As acebird said a lot of different factors now. But I always heard an established hive two years or older was more prone to mites issues due to most likely have more drone brood...
May be nothing to that thought in today's world of all the varroa transmitted viruses that could affect a hive early on.

bwallace23350 · January 29, 2017, 10:00:28 PM

Well my other thought to replace my lost hive is to trap some ferals that live in around my other bees. I know that these have not been treated for years and are likely the wild bees of a bee keeper who died over 10 years ago.

Acebird · January 30, 2017, 08:55:18 AM

Quote from: bwallace23350 on January 29, 2017, 10:00:28 PM
Well my other thought to replace my lost hive is to trap some ferals that live in around my other bees.

I haven't had any luck with that but the next best thing is to split a hive and let the queenless side make their own queen. Then you get a blend of production queen with feral drones. It doesn't always work but the more hives you have the more hives will make it through winter. A simple numbers game.

bwallace23350 · January 30, 2017, 09:58:13 AM

True. With my one hive that made it I could do a split. I guess there is a chance they could mate with my bought drones but I would know real quick if they mated with the wilds as they are much darker than the bought Italians.

bwallace23350 · January 30, 2017, 12:42:33 PM

Just checked this hive out. It looks strong. Hopefully in the next few days I can open it up and take a look. Just from a view this hive had lots of activity.

BeeMaster2 · January 30, 2017, 12:59:24 PM

Quote from: bwallace23350 on January 30, 2017, 09:58:13 AM
True. With my one hive that made it I could do a split. I guess there is a chance they could mate with my bought drones but I would know real quick if they mated with the wilds as they are much darker than the bought Italians.

Your virgin queens will go a lot farther than your drones will just to try to make sure she does not mate with drones from her mother.
Jim