Identify these bees please!

[Pete Zaria]

Hi there, very clean forum you have here, I'll do my best to help keep it that way!

I'm not a beekeeper, but I sure do enjoy having the little buggers (pardon the pun) around my yard - we have some fruit trees and etc... that benefit from the bees.

I've heard that honeybees VERY rarely live underground in my part of the world (the Pacific Northwest, on the West side of the Cascade mountain range, in the foothills, in Washington State). However, I seem to have a hive of them living semi-underground inside a bush in my yard.

I have a short video clip of the bees entering and leaving the hole in the ground, and also some close-up pictures of the bees.

I'd like help identifying them, and advise on what to do - call a bee keeper, just leave them alone, or what?

I can't post the pictures or video because new members aren't allowed to post links. I'll try to post them in a reply to this thread.

Thanks!

Peace,
Pete Zaria.

[Pete Zaria]

I can't post links, so please copy and paste these URLs into your browser to see the bees. I promise, no p0rn, no spam, just two pictures of a bee on a flower in my yard and a short clip of bees entering and leaving the hole - really.

Here's a short video clip of the bees entering and leaving the hole:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaKU47oeMng

http://img82.imageshack.us/img82/3695/img2842qo5.jpg

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/381/img2843sy4.jpg

If someone would like to re-post these as images in this thread, that would be awesome :)

Thanks,

Peace,
Pete Zaria.

[Bill W.]

It is impossible to tell from the youtube video - all I can see are blurry little blobs.  Based on the time of year, number coming and going, and the fact that they are ground nesting, my first guess would be yellowjackets.

ETA: Here is the pic he sent me.  Definitely a honey bee:

[Pete Zaria]

Bill,

Thanks for your reply - I posted links to some close-up shots of the bees above, maybe those will help.

I'm 90% sure they're honey bees, but I could be wrong - you guys would know better than I would.

Peace,
Pete Zaria.

[Bill W.]

Yep - scratch the yellowjackets - they are definitely honey bees.  Could there be an old pipe or some kind of container down in that hole?

If they are not in a place where they are bothering anyone, you'll probably get the most benefit from leaving them alone (unless you want to start keeping bees).

At this time of year, a removal is as likely to kill them as save them.

[Pete Zaria]

Negative. Last night, after dark, when the activity had settled down, I stood above the hole and looked in with a flashlight - it's dirt and goes down a foot or two and then bends "under" that bush visible in the video.

I'd estimate there are 10-20 bees going in or out every few seconds, it seems to be a pretty busy hive.

I don't mind them around (they haven't stung or bothered anyone yet), but should I take some action before it becomes a problem? The hole is about 30 feet from my home.
Do you think a local beekeeper might have interest in them? Is it even possible to "recover" bees from an underground nest like that?

I have interest in beekeeping but I don't think I could devote the time to do it correctly.

Thanks so much for the info!

Peace,
Pete Zaria.

[Bill W.]

If they aren't in a spot where they bother anyone, they aren't likely to become a problem.  Odds of a new hive surviving the Winter around here are not very good to start with.  Although I do wonder if they'll have problems with ground water in a hole.

There are a few Seattle folks here, so I imagine someone close to you will jump in if they are interested in recovering them.

I have no idea if it would be possible to successfully remove them.  If someone can reach into the hole and get a hand on the combs, it can probably be done.  It might be possible to put a hive box directly on top of the hole and get them to migrate into it.

I removed bees from an old muffler this year, so anything's possible.  ;)

[octagon]

Negative. Last night, after dark, when the activity had settled down, I stood above the hole and looked in with a flashlight - it's dirt and goes down a foot or two and then bends "under" that bush visible in the video.

I'd estimate there are 10-20 bees going in or out every few seconds, it seems to be a pretty busy hive.

I don't mind them around (they haven't stung or bothered anyone yet), but should I take some action before it becomes a problem? The hole is about 30 feet from my home.
Do you think a local beekeeper might have interest in them? Is it even possible to "recover" bees from an underground nest like that?

I have interest in beekeeping but I don't think I could devote the time to do it correctly.

Thanks so much for the info!

Peace,
Pete Zaria.

dump a half soda bottle of gas down the hole and follow it with a match, they sound like yellow jackets in the ground and they don't need a reason to sting.

[ArmucheeBee]

Here's how to tell.  Invite someone you do not care for to stand on the hole (unknown to them of course).  Make them mad so they stomp at least once.  As they begin to get stung, carefully watch one of the suspected "bees".  If it repeatedly stings--it's a yellowjacket.  If it stings once and pulls its guts out its a honeybee!!   Very simple test.  I would like for you to video the test so we can watch too.  This is an old country boy game too, called count the stings.

On a serious note:  Does anyone know of honeybees nesting on the ground?  I don't have enough experience to have heard of it before.  How would they find a hole on the ground when genetically they search higher when swarming?

[poka-bee]

That is strange, unless there is something buried there like an old bucket or small cave?  Pete, try to get a better pic of the bees coming out of the hole..or like Armucheebee says send someone you don't like to test it for you..bees only sting 1x & their butts fall off.  I live in Buckley, is that close to you?   

[Pete Zaria]

Thanks so much for the input, guys.

I followed a few bees out of the hole and confirmed, they are indeed the same type as the one in the photographs.

Here's another attempt at some video:



They're definitely honey bees.

As far as I can tell, there's no old containers or pipe under there, but there is an old tree stump just a foot or two from the hole - it's possible they've hollowed out the stump or something similar.

As I said, as long as they continue to co-exist with my family and I peacefully, I have no need to eradicate them. Having said that, if any beekeepers within driving distance of the Renton / Issaquah WA area, you're welcome to them.

Peace,
Pete Zaria.

[SgtMaj]

The pics are of the bees are bees on flowers... the video is of ground nesting bees... I'm betting they are from different hives.. the ground nesting ones being yellow jackets... and the bees on the flowers being honey bees.  I would be very surprised if the ones in the ground are actually honey bees... it's just not natural for them.

[dhood]

I agree its hard to see that video, but the flying pattern and wings dont look like honeybees to me. But the pictures are.

[MrILoveTheAnts]

If a tree stump has hollowed out underground some, that's the only time I've ever seen honey bees nesting underground.

They appear larger than yellowjackets in the video. But they don't seem bulky enough to be hornets either. We need a better image to determine what they are.

I'm leaning towards yellowjackets though. They often nest underground and will attack people approaching their nest at about 10 feet away, Hornets too. But the occasional person walking by usually comes away without incident.

[SgtMaj]

And most importantly they look a lot like honey bees, especially at night, with only a flashlight... I agree that a better pic is definately necessary for positive ID.

[Cindi]

Pete, very interesting.  I have a wild bee that lives in the ground that is near to my pool, the soil is very dry there.  These are tiny little bees that may be perhaps 1/2 inch long, they sting.  They get in the pool water all the time and give a little sting, it stings for about 10 seconds and is gone.  I have taken pictures of these bees several years ago, but do not have any, I am not even sure how many were around this year, never really noticed them much these year, coming out of the ground, nor getting into the water.  These little bees gather pollen, just like our familiar apis mellifera, our honeybee.  They look just like a bee, but only 1/5 the size, I would say.  I am going to go and have a look tomorrow and see if there are any around.  I know that I have seen the holes that they go into this year, but just not so many of these little bees that have been so prevalent in years gone by.  I will try to attempt this and see what I can see, maybe even get a picture, one never knows.  Beautiful day, wonderful life, love life, Cindi

[SgtMaj]

Cindi, sounds maybe like some type of sweat bees to me.  They can be very benefitial to the garden, as they will pollinate plants that may not otherwise get visited.

[Cindi]

SgtMaj.  I don't think that they sweat....beautiful, most wonderful day, Cindi

[bmacior]

get a butterfly net and catch one of them there flyers, stick it in a jar and take a picture of it so we can determine if it's wasps or bees.  If it's wasps murder them nasty buggers.  If it's bees, I'd leave them alone.  They'll pollinate flowers and gardens in the area, making everyone happy.  The colony can only grow to to size of their "hive" which is probably small.  Which means they'll swarm alot.  Get to know a beekeeper.

[SgtMaj]

SgtMaj.  I don't think that they sweat....beautiful, most wonderful day, Cindi

There is something like a quarter million different variety of sweat bees... all of which they say have nothing more than a minor sting, similar to what you described, and many of which nest in the ground.  If course, that is no guarantee that is what you've got... but it would be where I would start my search for their identification.