starting up a hive

[Lone]

Hello,

Being so new to beekeeping, I would like some advice please on setting up the hive for a wild swarm.  We have brought two wild colonies home so far but only one stayed.  The other left the next day.  With the last one that stayed, we put two frames of honey in the bottom super and one in the second level.  The numbers seem to have gone down a bit since we brought it home.  Is this because the young ones haven't come out yet?  I plan to inspect it fairly soon to see what they are up to.

If there is no spare honey or honeycomb, does a swarm tend to stay if there is just plain foundation wax?

I'm sorry if my terminology is not right.  Please correct me!

Lone

[Greg Peck]

Where are you getting the wild colonies from. If you are removing a colony from a tree or someones house possibly you are not getting the queen. If the queen is not present I think you will have a harder time making them stay in your hive.

How far are you from where you got the wild colonies? If you are only a few miles away they may be returning to the original hive location.

If the colony will fit in just one hive body then just use one hive body instead of 2. You can add the second box later once they get there numbers built up some. Putting some honey comb with honey in it into the hive will help them stay but putting some brood in the hive will help a lot more. I would put the bees and what ever comb, honey, and brood into one hive body then cover the entrance with a screen (make sure the top entrance is covered also). Give them a day or two to get settled in then take the screen away and put a branch or other obstacle in front of the entrance so the bees have to re-orientate when they leave. This is what I do with cut outs and sometimes swarms. None of my bees have up and left (knock on wood). Maybe it works or maybe I am just lucky :)

[Michael Bush]

If you catch a swarm and put it in a box how quickly it will start to build up will depend on many things including if they have drawn comb, if you anchored them with some open brood etc.

If you did a cut out (cut the combs out of a tree or house and tied them into frames) then they should build up pretty quickly in a flow (which I assume you might have "Down under")  Did you get the queen?

[BjornBee]

You have two different situations with your two swarms. The first left outright. This could of been for many reasons, and even having them in full sun upon placing them in the box can make them leave. This oftentimes is for reasons not easily explained. I have caught the same swarm and boxed them several times before they decided to stay. Why they left the first two times but stayed the third (all in the same box) is a mystery.

The second swarm has other issues. As Greg pointed out, they could be queenless (they may dwindle as they drift seeking out a queen pheromone which will happen if you have another hive in the area.) or they may be close enough for the fieldbees to go back home.

And then there is the fuzzy area of reality that sometimes has beekeeper thinking swarms are much bigger when catching them, but several days later, after the bees start to concentrate on a few frames....makes them appear far less in numbers than originally thought.

Lone??? Do you have scandinavian family in your background?

[bmacior]

I've read  swarms that are hived too soon after leaving their old home will abscond.  :?  Having never caught a swarm, I don't know how true that is.  Anybody have experience with that?

[Brian D. Bray]

I've read  swarms that are hived too soon after leaving their old home will abscond.  :?  Having never caught a swarm, I don't know how true that is.  Anybody have experience with that?

There are essentially 2 types of free swarms, those that are taking a break on the way to a preselected site, and those that swarm with a preselected site.  The 1st type will almost always abscond unless baited with brood or an "includer" is used to keep the queen within the hive.  The 2nd type will almost always accept accommodations in any box offered that is large enough to hold them.  Almost means there is always exceptions.  In the 1st type if the accommodations are better than what was preselected chances are they'll stay anyway.  Older well used equipment increases the odds in either case.

[johnnybigfish]

Mine used to fly away alot until I was reminded to use a queen excluder on top of the bottom..The next two I caught are still here. I only left the excluder in for a few weeks.

your friend,
john

[Brian D. Bray]

Mine used to fly away alot until I was reminded to use a queen excluder on top of the bottom..The next two I caught are still here. I only left the excluder in for a few weeks.

your friend,
john

That's the "includer" John.  You reverse it's use to keep the queen in the hive instead of out of the supers.

[johnnybigfish]

Are you telling me that theres two ways to install these things?..Right side up or upside down? I found it was this way with inside coveers but didnt know about tyhe exclurers deing udse fdifferent ways!

your firend,
john...Excues the spellimng....Ambien

[rdy-b]

think he means that you are not excluding the queen that way -( like exclude from honey supper)-rather you are including her to the brood box-hence include is the reverse of exclud  :lol: only one way to use them though that would be flat side down :-D-RDY-B

[Brian D. Bray]

think he means that you are not excluding the queen that way -( like exclude from honey supper)-rather you are including her to the brood box-hence include is the reverse of exclud  :lol: only one way to use them though that would be flat side down :-D-RDY-B

Amen, flat side down, sideways it becomes a porous divider board.  Reversing the excluder is using it on the bottom of the broodbox instead of the top.

[Lone]

Hello, thanks for everyone's help.  I had the privilege of visiting the professional bee keeper in town yesterday, and had a tour of his hives and learnt a lot.  I will try to answer some of your questions.  Greg:  The hive that disappeared was in a tree, and we saw right down to the bottom, so there was no chance the queen was missed I think.  We put the hollow log with the old comb in it over the manmade super.  The comb didn't look too healthy though, old and dark, and was mainly empty.  Anyway, we know this was a bad idea and won't be repeated  ;)  It woud have been shifted about 30km.
Michael:  Yes I know now we should try to use some brood comb.  I am slowly learning.  Also, there was no honey to encourage them to stay.  There is a possibility they actually joined with the original hive, though, because the numbers increased a lot after this.  I don't know all my bees by name yet, so I can't be sure.
Bjornbee: My father said that if a swarm stays in a new spot for a whole night, then they will stay.  Maybe this is the critical timing for them.  I think the numbers of the newer hive are not too bad.  We made the hive too tall, so I'll have to take a bit of space off them.  They are coming back with pollen, so maybe they are starting to breed.  After my tour yesterday I am a bit more confident in recognising this.  They have filled up the whole bottom super with comb in around 2 weeks.  I don't know of any scandinavian, sorry..only the german, english, scottish, welsh...etc etc.
Bmacior: I wonder what you can do with bees before you hive them? 
Brian:Now that is useful to know.  The first hive we got looked a bit established, the second had only been in the tree a couple of hours.
Yes, we are using queen placemats  :)

Lone

[bmacior]

My guess would be to close them in somehow, with adequate ventilation, food, and brood, for a couple of days.

[Cindi]

.
Lone??? Do you have scandinavian family in your background?

BjornBee.  Why did you ask this question?  I am curious, and you will soon find out that I am a nosey gal, hee, hee.  And....Curiosity never got this cat, hee, hee  :) :) :).  Have a most wonderful and awesome day, great health wishes to us all.  Cindi