Panicked over split

[tillie]

Well, just to see if I could, I did a walk-away split with my busting out of the seams hive last week on Friday.  I put three frames of brood and eggs and two frames of honey and pollen in a five frame medium nuc.  I closed it up and walked away, worried a little that I hadn't put enough bees in the thing.

Then since I was worried about the numbers, I thought I probably should feed them so on Wednesday I put a Boardman on thinking I'd change to a baggie tomorrow (Friday).  Today I came home to find rampant robbing going on.  There were shards of wax all in front of the nuc, meaning that the robbers had torn the honey cappings inside the box as well as battles between the robbers at the boardman.

I immediately removed the jar from the Boardman and put a barrier between the nuc and my other hives - (a bottom board on its side).

Tonight after dark I cautiously lifted the cover.  There are still some bees in the nuc, looking defeated.

What should I do?  Just let it die as it probably will?  Or should I replace the honey frames tomorrow and switch out a frame of brood and eggs to let them start over?

Thanks in advance for the wisdom of this forum.

Linda T discouraged in Atlanta

[wharfrat]

Hi Linda, I sure do enjoy your website. I am entering my second year as a beekeeper and appreciate learning from your experiences. I hope things work out with your split.

In my limited experience, the Boardman feeder placed outside even on a restricted entrance is the absolute worst invention for our hobby. The promotion of robbing is simply undeniable. I feel lucky to have survived my first season after a couple of nightmarish episodes of robbing last fall. Luckily, it looks like my single hive will make it through the spring.

Best luck and regards from Richmond Virginia,

Pat Hannen

[RayMarler]

Hi Linda,
I don't know the exact situation with all your hives, but what you might consider, is to join the robbed nuc back with the colony you split it out of. Make sure no queen cells or hatched queens are present. As it builds back up again, you can always do a split again at a later date.

[MustbeeNuts]

If it was me, and I'm a newbee, I'd swap a frame or two of bees and brood again,   and reduce the entrance way down . And hope for the best.

[BjornBee]

Robber bees will be back at the nuc again, and the only way to stop it at this point is to have the nuc defend itself, or move the nuc to a new location (which is my choice)

Agree the feeder had something to do with it. The split did not need it, and is an example of too much "love". But remember, walk away split will many times lose all it's workforce as they return to the original hive. So you should expect a 30-40% loss in bee numbers in the split.

[tillie]

That makes sense.  I'll move the nuc to another part of my yard - off of the deck.  And I think by

walk away split will many times lose all it's workforce as they return to the original hive. So you should expect a 30-40% loss in bee numbers in the split.

you mean that the split will have lost work force by attrition not just from the robbery....right?  Since there's no ongoing build in brood until they successfully make a new queen, she gets mated and starts laying (33 days??)

I haven't ever done a split and wanted to see if I could, but I get called about swarms and probably will end up with two more hives by that means, so I don't really need the hive, but would prefer to see it be successful than to put it back in its original hive.

Linda T in Atlanta

[plane]

Hello Linda -
I'm a second year beekeeper and love your blog.
I attended a beekeeping seminar this past weekend and listened to a gentleman give a talk about exactly what you're attempting to do.  The biggest difference in his approach is that he insists on relocating the  nuc a minimum 2-miles from the original site to keep the bees from simply going home to their original hive.
Keep up the good work.

[suprstakr]

I take the hive with the queen and moove it and leave the nuke in it's place . The queen has a lot of capped brood for workers and the nuke gets the field bees

[danno]

I made a couple of walkaway splits last year and although populations never got real big over the summer they are still alive through a very rough Michigan winter.  I did move them about 1 mile away and I built robber screens for both nuc's.  These screens really work very well.  these nuc's sat right next to a very large swarm colony and robbing never became a problem.  By the end of last summer they where large enough for a single deep but instead as they grew I gave them a 2nd nuc both 5 frames.  They had about 35 - 40 #s of honey and alot of pollen

[Saltcreek]

Idon't know if you did, but you should close a weak hive like a split to a very small opening. Especially with a Boardman feeder present. Then the weak hive has a much smaller opening to have to defend, using fewer guards to do it. The opening should be as far away from the Boardman feeder as possible. Boardman's will cause robbing more than an internal feeder like a division boeard feeder or a top feeder. Maybe try a jar on top of the inner cover hole with a super box covering it. This cuts down on the odor being so close to the entrance.

[IABeeMan]

 The attrition is from the bees simply going back to thier original hive. Especially if the nuc is sitting beside the original hive. If you do not have the ability to move the nuc 2-3 miles away for a few days then move it back I would do the following. Move the "mother" hive over and place the nuc in the original hives spot. To achieve maximum sucess this way do the swap in mid day when the field bees are out. This increase the nucs numbers and allows them to defend. The field bees that left the mother hive of a morning return to the exact same spot which is now the nuc. combine this with a small entrance about 3/8 to a 1/2 inch and all should be fine.
The best way to do a split is to makeup the nuc and take it to a friends or a family members for a week then bring it back and the bees will have reoriented themselves.

[Understudy]

When you do a walk away split and you need to get bees to accept the box. Take the nuc and leave it in the place of the old hive. Take the old hive and move it as far away as possible place branches in front of the entrance to force a reorientation.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

[doak]

I always try to make splits with the same size boxes.
If you have a two deep colony that is "bursting" at the seams, as the saying go's,There is plenty of bees.
Next, place a hive stand  about 4 to 6 feet away from the colony you are splitting.
Now place a bottom board, with an empty box on the ground, " on an inverted top cover" next to the colony your splitting.
Take the frames out of the parent colony that you are making your split from and put them in the new box.
Now move your old colony to the new stand.
Put your new split on the old stand and shake "a few" xtra bees in the new split.
You have all the bees that were on the frames you made the nuc up with, and most of these are
 new, :) house  bees.
The ones that always return to the old location are field bees.
So it will be with this set up.
Your parent colony will not suffer much because they have bees ready to become field bees.
Plus they have the mature laying queen and some brood left.

I always do it this way and always use the full 10 or 8 frame boxes, which ever the case may be.
The only time I use a 5 frame box is when I have some queen cells and I want to make a 3 or 4 way split.

Like I said before, every one has a way that works for them. This works for me.

And stay away from the board man feeders. unless you want to place it on the top of the frames and set an empty box on and put the top cover on.

That is the only way I use a board man feeder. :)doak