She got 86'ed

tlynn · March 17, 2009, 01:39:13 AM

Did inspection yesterday after 2 weeks and found lots of drone comb, especially a whole wad of drone comb on the bottoms of a couple of frames I cut off. There were some queen cells high up in the frames the last month or so. All were empty now. Then I saw a queen, and she definitely was not the queen I had introduced last summer and saw 2 weeks ago. My queen was a distinctly orange hued Italian. This one was much darker and her abdomen had dark bands. She looked like a tiger. There were eggs, so I am assuming she's laying, but I don't know if she's mated yet. How will I know? Wait to see a new cycle of worker brood?

What I don't understand is why the old queen got superseded. She laid full frames all through the winter and right now the hive is booming so well I added another deep. All this through the efforts of a great queen who made some very tame and highly producing bees.

I have some queens coming in May for splits and figure I'll requeen this hive to get back to a known quantity (I suppose - presumably no AHB around Purvis Bros in GA.) since they're trapping some AHB in the Tampa area according to our inspector.

Understudy · March 17, 2009, 02:36:13 AM

Quote from: tlynn on March 17, 2009, 01:39:13 AM
Did inspection yesterday after 2 weeks and found lots of drone comb, especially a whole wad of drone comb on the bottoms of a couple of frames I cut off. There were some queen cells high up in the frames the last month or so. All were empty now. Then I saw a queen, and she definitely was not the queen I had introduced last summer and saw 2 weeks ago. My queen was a distinctly orange hued Italian. This one was much darker and her abdomen had dark bands. She looked like a tiger. There were eggs, so I am assuming she's laying, but I don't know if she's mated yet. How will I know? Wait to see a new cycle of worker brood?

Eggs are a sign of laying within a recent period of time You have a mated queen. My queens all look different.

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What I don't understand is why the old queen got superseded. She laid full frames all through the winter and right now the hive is booming so well I added another deep. All this through the efforts of a great queen who made some very tame and highly producing bees.

The peasants are revolting and they smell bad too.

The workers decided she wasn't suitable for whatever reason. Accept their decision and move on. You can frustrate yourself trying to read into it to much.

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I have some queens coming in May for splits and figure I'll requeen this hive to get back to a known quantity (I suppose - presumably no AHB around Purvis Bros in GA.) since they're trapping some AHB in the Tampa area according to our inspector.

You do not need to requeen. Unless the hive acts hot. It ain't broke don't fix it. There are AHB all over Florida. So what? You bees will do better with some genetic diversity anyway.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

BMAC · March 17, 2009, 08:36:13 AM

I have personally had long discussions about AHB with Dan Purvis. He told me where his yards are in N Ga there are no problems with AHB. He also recently opened a new branch in Tn though I am not sure if the Tn branch is fully operational yet.

JP · March 17, 2009, 09:56:21 AM

Tlynn, bees have a mind of their own and know better than we do, that a queen needs to be superseded.

One of my friend's hive had a queen laying her fannie off, just a bee keeper's dream come true, full frames of brood front and back.

They as of late have built supersedure cells. Of course we don't want to re queen her, she is so awesome, her bees are so gentle, we are not worthy, we are not bees, we have no say, dang it!

As Brendhan said, keep an eye on the hive, if you want you could get them tested as well. You will have to part with around 100 bees to send the bee lab for testing. Brendhan can give you the info.

...JP

Understudy · March 17, 2009, 10:09:15 AM

In Florida for testing of bees.
Florida Dept of Agriculture and Consumer Services
1911 SW 34 Street
PO Box 147100
Gainesville, FL 32614-7100

Place 100 bees (appox) in a jar with rubbing alcohol. Seal the jar so it won't leak. Pack it so it won't break.
Send return mailing information in the package. You won't get the jar back but you do want the test results sent back. No stories with the package just request for testing and to send the result to your specified address.

Allow at least 8 weeks for results. By then you will now if the queen is raising a bunch of nasty little brats. And if they do come back AHB and they don't have an attitude problem maybe it will be the start of dispelling some of the myth-conceptions. :)

Sincerely,
Brendhan

tlynn · March 17, 2009, 01:39:05 PM

Quote from: JP on March 17, 2009, 09:56:21 AM
Tlynn, bees have a mind of their own and know better than we do, that a queen needs to be superseded.

One of my friend's hive had a queen laying her fannie off, just a bee keeper's dream come true, full frames of brood front and back.

They as of late have built supersedure cells. Of course we don't want to re queen her, she is so awesome, her bees are so gentle, we are not worthy, we are not bees, we have no say, dang it!

As Brendhan said, keep an eye on the hive, if you want you could get them tested as well. You will have to part with around 100 bees to send the bee lab for testing. Brendhan can give you the info.

...JP

Yep, they do know better. It just puzzles the human because from this perspective all seemed so great! Another reason to be even MORE fascinated with them.

tlynn · March 17, 2009, 01:49:12 PM

Quote from: Understudy on March 17, 2009, 10:09:15 AM
In Florida for testing of bees.
Florida Dept of Agriculture and Consumer Services
1911 SW 34 Street
PO Box 147100
Gainesville, FL 32614-7100

Place 100 bees (appox) in a jar with rubbing alcohol. Seal the jar so it won't leak. Pack it so it won't break.
Send return mailing information in the package. You won't get the jar back but you do want the test results sent back. No stories with the package just request for testing and to send the result to your specified address.

Allow at least 8 weeks for results. By then you will now if the queen is raising a bunch of nasty little brats. And if they do come back AHB and they don't have an attitude problem maybe it will be the start of dispelling some of the myth-conceptions. :)

Sincerely,
Brendhan

Thanks Brendhan. OK, I'll not requeen for now. The State has said we need to requeen every 6 months, but our inspector said he didn't think that was reasonable. That would be cool to have AHB stock and them to be pussycats! Of course my overriding responsibility is to my family and the neighbors and guests not to let them be attacked by my bees, so she'll be headed to bee heaven if they get testy.

My last inspection was June 2008, and he took a bee sample then. I'll schedule this year's in mid May.

Tracy

Understudy · March 17, 2009, 01:55:28 PM

Quote from: tlynn on March 17, 2009, 01:49:12 PM
Quote from: Understudy on March 17, 2009, 10:09:15 AM
In Florida for testing of bees.
Florida Dept of Agriculture and Consumer Services
1911 SW 34 Street
PO Box 147100
Gainesville, FL 32614-7100

Place 100 bees (appox) in a jar with rubbing alcohol. Seal the jar so it won't leak. Pack it so it won't break.
Send return mailing information in the package. You won't get the jar back but you do want the test results sent back. No stories with the package just request for testing and to send the result to your specified address.

Allow at least 8 weeks for results. By then you will now if the queen is raising a bunch of nasty little brats. And if they do come back AHB and they don't have an attitude problem maybe it will be the start of dispelling some of the myth-conceptions. :)

Sincerely,
Brendhan

Thanks Brendhan. OK, I'll not requeen for now. The State has said we need to requeen every 6 months, but our inspector said he didn't think that was reasonable. That would be cool to have AHB stock and them to be pussycats! Of course my overriding responsibility is to my family and the neighbors and guests not to let them be attacked by my bees, so she'll be headed to bee heaven if they get testy.

That policy of queen replacement is why many beekeepers don't sign the BMP. Unmarked untested queens to be replaced every six months is stupid and expensive. The FSBA conference call included some harsh words on the BMP. I understand their frustration. I know of no commercial beekeepers that follow it.

Quote
My last inspection was June 2008, and he took a bee sample then. I'll schedule this year's in mid May.

Tracy

If you can do it before hand because it takes so long to get the results. Also if you have a copy of the results when he comes to do the inspection you are a step up. Especially if they come back negative. if they come back positive you can order a queen and then you have the health certificate from the supplier.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

tlynn · March 17, 2009, 04:17:14 PM

Quote from: Understudy on March 17, 2009, 01:55:28 PM
If you can do it before hand because it takes so long to get the results. Also if you have a copy of the results when he comes to do the inspection you are a step up. Especially if they come back negative. if they come back positive you can order a queen and then you have the health certificate from the supplier.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

OK, then. So should I wait at least 6 weeks from last Sunday to make sure there has been mostly all turnover?

Understudy · March 17, 2009, 04:22:59 PM

Quote from: tlynn on March 17, 2009, 04:17:14 PM
Quote from: Understudy on March 17, 2009, 01:55:28 PM
If you can do it before hand because it takes so long to get the results. Also if you have a copy of the results when he comes to do the inspection you are a step up. Especially if they come back negative. if they come back positive you can order a queen and then you have the health certificate from the supplier.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

OK, then. So should I wait at least 6 weeks from last Sunday to make sure there has been mostly all turnover?

You can probably do it after 3 weeks. The reason being is that forgers are the older bees. The nurse bees that hang on the frames are the younger ones.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

tlynn · March 17, 2009, 04:26:16 PM

Cool. I'll post results.

One more question - when she gets superceded, does the new queen emerge and go right after her? I had seen how the current queen goes around and stings through the queen cells to kill them. Do the phermones keep her from doing that if the collective decides she has to go?

Understudy · March 17, 2009, 04:31:37 PM

Quote from: tlynn on March 17, 2009, 04:26:16 PM
Cool. I'll post results.

One more question - when she gets superceded, does the new queen emerge and go right after her? I had seen how the current queen goes around and stings through the queen cells to kill them. Do the phermones keep her from doing that if the collective decides she has to go?

In my experience in a supercedure. The queen gets killed by the workers.

Sincerely,
Brendhan

rast · March 17, 2009, 09:21:45 PM

Understudy "That policy of queen replacement is why many beekeepers don't sign the BMP."
Nope, I didn't/wouldn't sign it either.

Michael Bush · March 17, 2009, 09:43:07 PM

>What I don't understand is why the old queen got superseded.

They know something you don't.

tlynn · March 18, 2009, 12:29:04 AM

Quote from: Michael Bush on March 17, 2009, 09:43:07 PM
>What I don't understand is why the old queen got superseded.

They know something you don't.

They know LOTS I don't!