Trap Out Opportunity

[Boom Buzz]

I met a guy who has a colony in between his floor joists, above his basement.  Said it has been there for "a few years."  It is  in the corner of the house with fairly good access.  He tried to remove the colony last year, and got out about 4 feet of comb, but the colony moved further into the house.  From a cut out standpoint the only reasonable access would be through the ceiling of the basement office.  When I discussed the trap out prospect he was all for it.  I will try to post some pics to give an idea of the access.

There is the possibility  of stuffing myself up between  the floor joist (you can see what I mean in the picture), but working wise the bees would have to go through me to exit and it would be very cramped working conditions (and maybe I am not as skinny as I think).  I am afraid I would just mangle the comb and make the bees mad.

I've read Iddee's great posts about on how to trap out.  Lot's of useful info to get me started.
The colony is in the closest corner up in the floor joists



Looking closer into the joists area



Zooming into the hive area.  You can see the comb remnants on the plywood ceiling



Lots of bees - not sure how far back the colony/hive goes.




A couple of questions

1)  I only have one hive with a package introduced two weeks ago.  I have frames with brood and eggs but I don't want to weaken this hive before it really gets started.  Could I just insert a queen into the hive on day two or three of the trap out, the same way you do with a package?  In a cage that the workers/attendants have to eat through to release her!?  I would be willing to spend the money for the queen if I can keep my existing hive intact.  Has this been done with any success?  Any other options?

2) The honey flow has not really started in earnest here in Colorado, except maybe for dandelions.  Would placing a boardman feeder on the trap hive be beneficial?  Or detrimental?

3)  I read about placing the trap hive as close to the old entrance as possible - this is where the bees will be returning to after foraging.   The owner asked about placing the hive about ten feet away in a more convenient spot for him.  I explained a little about bee behavior and how this would reduce the success rate.  I am wondering if I could just run some 2" pvc pipe from the current entrance (reduced down to 2") to the hive trap with the cone at the hive?  Seems like it would still reduce the chance of success!?  Any opinions or suggestions? 


Any suggestions are welcome!

Thanks
John

[Robo]

I wouldn't consider a trap out as an option.   You need to go in thru the ceiling and cut out the rest.   Trap outs are a last option when there is no way to reasonably get access (ie. brick or stone building)

Although Iddee did an exceptional job explaining the process,  there are a bunch of unique issues/gotchas that always arise that make them not trivial.  I'm not trying to discourage anyone from learning to do trap outs, but there is a time and a place, and I don't think a half cut-out colony would be a good first attempt.

Raised ranches seem to be a favorite for bees around here too.

[iddee]

Thank You, Robo. I didn't know quite how to word it, but you did well. The owner sounds to be the perfect candidate for a walk away. More trouble than he is worth. Bees don't really care what he wants or doesn't want. They have already shown him that once. A simple, one day cut out is the only answer for that job, other than living with the bees. Here is a basement office job. It is simple, easy, and easily repaired.



10 inches from the cone base to the trap is too much. 10 feet and you can forget it.That's why there has been so many failures with trap outs. The bees have certain instincts they go by and the more you vary them, the less the success of them doing what you want. Eggs will last for 24 hours until the bees begin to take up in the box. Larva have a smell that will attract them into the box. A caged queen that isn't their queen will only attract animosity. They will have nothing to make them take up in the trap box. They will only gather on the base of the cone, where they smell their queen.

[Boom Buzz]

Thanks Robo and Iddee for the comments.  Not exactly what I was hoping to hear, but this is why this forum is so great - so us new guys can reap the experience from the more seasoned beeks.  The owner has actually been very reasonable.  Regarding locating the trap in a different spot he just asked the question and I gave him close to what I think is the right answer - locating the trap right next to the cone (right next to their entrance) has the best chance for success.  But I thought I'd ask to get other's input just in case I missed something. 

I'll have the discussion with the owner and see where it goes from there.  I think the "walk away" suggestion might be the best approach initially.  I'd rather he press for a cutout than for him to feel talked into it and then have to deal with the dry wall repairs.

One additional question regarding trap outs - once the trap bees have made a queen, and the hive is now "queen right", why aren't "old" bees that have left the old hive and can't get back in, and now try to join the new hive regarded as robbers?

Again thanks!

John

[Robo]

One additional question regarding trap outs - once the trap bees have made a queen, and the hive is now "queen right", why aren't "old" bees that have left the old hive and can't get back in, and now try to join the new hive regarded as robbers?

If done right, most of the old bees will be out of the house before your trap hive is queenright.   If there are any that aren't,  they won't realize they are "trapped out" until returning from foraging at which time they are loaded and more easily accepted by the trap hive.

[Kathyp]

don't get talked into trying to slide into that space.  it would be similar to my attic cut out, which was most unpleasant!