Save the hive or not?

patook · April 20, 2009, 03:44:40 AM

OK, here is the situation. The colony is almost dead from heavy robbing. The brood nest is across 2 frames about the size of a baseball. There is some capped and emerging a few pupae and I only saw one larvae filling the bottom of his cell, no smaller larvae or eggs. I think they are queenless. I saw no evidence of disease, but today for the first time, I saw 3 wax moth trails in an abandoned frame. I removed the frame. This is my only hive so I cannot move brood from another hive. I will be getting 2 nucs this weekend.

The question is, can a new queen save the colony? All things being equal, I would like to try rather then give up. But if the chances if saving them are nil, I may just shake them off at the entrance of one of the nucs.

mick · April 20, 2009, 05:13:21 AM

When you get the two nucs, but the two frames from the weak hive in one of the now empty nuc boxes. ditch the other frames for until you can clean em up and re-use em later. Assuming it is a 4 frame nuc box, use two clean waxed frames one either side of the two frames containing the ball. If one of the nucs looks robust enough, you could steal a frame and use it, or better still, cut out some honey and add that to the original weak hive now in the nuc box.

As its so low on bees, id put it in a prime position nice and sunny, small entrance, and hope for the best. Dont worry about losing a few bees that get lost over night.I recently had bees recover well after being down to a handful doing pretty much what I said above.

Just make sure you get out any wax moth grubs in the two frames with the ball. They really are a pest to a weak hive.

As you observed at least one larvae, its not over yet! Means queen just died, ill, whatever, we are talking days not weeks, they could requeen on auto as it warms up if you give em a lil care.

Strike me lucky! 1000th post next post, I better think of something good.

patook · April 20, 2009, 05:27:51 AM

Thanks for the advice. The nucs I am getting will be in my 10 frame deeps that I gave him a month ago so I will not have a nuc box. However, I could probably cut a piece of Styrofoam as a filler and take out five or six frames.

As for re-queening on auto, I assume you mean that I will need to buy a queen. I saw no signs that they are building a replacement queen cell.

BTW: Congrats on 1000 posts.

mick · April 21, 2009, 06:05:26 AM

Ahh time ticks away, 1000 posts of nothing but dribble, but it has been a hoot.

I was meaning to say they will raise a Queen themselves.

Eshu · April 21, 2009, 01:41:34 PM

I would probably do a newspaper combine with the weak hive. Be sure they really don't have a queen first though.

The amount of resources you would have to divert from the nucs to keep this one going aren't worth setting the nucs back.

patook · May 05, 2009, 04:13:22 AM

Well, the situation in this hive is not good. I replaced the queen and she was accepted but she is not laying. I see her walking around and she appears to be looking for a cell to lay in. All the brood has hatched and they workers are in a cluster at the top of the frame but she was pretty much alone with one attendant. Because this is the same behavior the old queen had before she disappeared, I am thinking that it is not a bad queen but the colony is too small (with no brood) and no cells are ready.

I caught a swarm the other day that I would like to requeen with this one, but now that I see her not laying, I am not sure. She came from a good queen source, is it likely that she is a good queen but is just not able to lay due to so few bees? Perhaps there are just no clean cells, even though they look clean to me. I have heard that the workers leave a mark in the cell that tells her it is ready.

SgtMaj · May 05, 2009, 04:58:49 AM

Define "she came from a good queen source"? Was she mated when you got her or does she still need to mate? Is she slim like she's a very young queen that maybe even just got back from mating, or fat like she's been laying for a while already? Does the hive have the resources to raise a batch of brood right now (do you see any bee bread)? Are you feeding them? How long ago did you requeen (I realize it's been at least since 4-19, but was it within the past 7 - 10 days)? How about those nucs, did you borrow any bees from the nucs to make sure they had plenty of nurse bees on staff to rear a batch of brood?

SlickMick · May 05, 2009, 06:13:45 AM

I would be inclined to combine the swarm with the problem colony using the queen you have just installed

Mick

patook · May 05, 2009, 01:47:52 PM

She was an extra queen from the people I got my nucs from last weekend, I put her in on Saturday, but she was not released until Wed. She is a very young queen and should be just mated. I am feeding them both syrup and brood-builder. I did not move any brood or bees from a nuc.

There is a cluster of bees left in the hive, but it is only the size of a baseball. I am inclided to think the hive is too small to survive, but would the queen not laying mean that she is no good, or just not able to lay because of the colony?

SgtMaj · May 05, 2009, 09:14:29 PM

Quote from: patook on May 05, 2009, 01:47:52 PM
She was an extra queen from the people I got my nucs from last weekend, I put her in on Saturday, but she was not released until Wed. She is a very young queen and should be just mated. I am feeding them both syrup and brood-builder. I did not move any brood or bees from a nuc.

There is a cluster of bees left in the hive, but it is only the size of a baseball. I am inclided to think the hive is too small to survive, but would the queen not laying mean that she is no good, or just not able to lay because of the colony?

If she's that young there's a chance that she's not yet mated, and also a chance that if she is just mated, she's not yet able to lay (she would have had to be slim to make a mating flight, and would need to be well fed again in order to start laying). I would give her time, but shake a few hundred bees from each of the nucs into this hive just to make sure they'll make it.

patook · May 06, 2009, 03:56:30 AM

Quote from: SgtMaj on May 05, 2009, 09:14:29 PM
I would give her time, but shake a few hundred bees from each of the nucs into this hive just to make sure they'll make it.

Can you explain exactly how to shake the bees in? Is this the newspaper combine method or do you just take a frame of brood over and hake the bees into the bad hive?

SgtMaj · May 06, 2009, 04:15:56 AM

Quote from: patook on May 06, 2009, 03:56:30 AM
Can you explain exactly how to shake the bees in? Is this the newspaper combine method or do you just take a frame of brood over and hake the bees into the bad hive?

Yeah, just shake them in. Alternatively you can swap the hive locations in the middle of the day so forraging bees from the stronger hive return to the weak hive.

EasternShore · May 06, 2009, 04:52:36 AM

You can also spray them with alittle sugar water first, then dump them.