This One Has Me Stumped

patook · May 10, 2009, 03:54:33 AM

For future reference, since the options here were trap-out or exterminate, why would a trap-out be better? They would both leave the comb in there?

Perhaps with a trap-out the bees eat a good portion of the stored honey during the process?

SgtMaj · May 10, 2009, 05:21:28 AM

Quote from: patook on May 10, 2009, 03:54:33 AM
For future reference, since the options here were trap-out or exterminate, why would a trap-out be better? They would both leave the comb in there?

Perhaps with a trap-out the bees eat a good portion of the stored honey during the process?

With a trap out the bees live, and in the process of getting starved out they'll eat up most of the stores... or so I've heard.

JP · May 10, 2009, 09:28:02 AM

Quote from: patook on May 10, 2009, 03:54:33 AM
For future reference, since the options here were trap-out or exterminate, why would a trap-out be better? They would both leave the comb in there?

Perhaps with a trap-out the bees eat a good portion of the stored honey during the process?

You called it.

As for the bees in the trap out colony go, their genetics will not survive, but they will live out their lives with the purpose of creating queens from stock from the colony you give them. In essence, they get to live out their lives, happily, with purpose.

One may believe exterminating a colony and being done with it is an option. Far from it.

Bees are amazingly tenacious social insects, masters of survival. I have dealt with my fair share of colonies that have been sprayed 'til the cows came home to no avail.

Iddee, is a master of trapping out bees, and if you observe his comments, he says over and again that removing a colony by performing a cut out is the best option, trap outs come in second.

Exterminating a colony and sealing it up in my opinion should never, ever be an option. I have been there, I hate to say, so I know first hand that in most cases you are going to receive call backs from the customer that the bees are still there.

They have ways of surviving that most people could not ever understand.

I refuse to take any job where I cannot perform a cut out, or a trap out cannot be done successfully, due to an endless amount of exit/entrance holes that could not be sealed.

With a trap out or a cut out there will be scent left behind that will be attractive to future swarms. The challenge once these procedures are completed becomes sealing and caulking potential entrance holes so that other colonies cannot gain access.

This is a job that is simpler said than done, trust me on this one. Buildings have so, so many different openings in them that sealing every last hole could take a life time. But, in most cases if you are thorough enough with your bee proofing you usually can keep them from coming back for some time to come.

Leaving a bunch of honey in a void space to drip out, ferment, and attract ants and other critters, let's not go there.

Perform the cut out, do a trap out, or walk away, this is my best advice.

...JP

G3farms · May 10, 2009, 09:39:29 AM

well said JP.
Most home owners that have become the new owners of a swarm or hive of bees in their home have a hard time understanding this. It takes a little bit of educating them to bring them around. I had to walk away from one the other day also. Home owner hd sprayed the living day lites out of them, i was a new swarm and they had moved three times trying to avoid the spray.

G3

JP · May 10, 2009, 10:01:14 AM

G3, the best case scenario as you know, is when the home owner obviously has done nothing at all to the colony.

I've seen situations where spraying was done, that things are so complicated you don't know where to begin.

If I can figure it all out, of course with many questions and thorough inspection and hopefully no lies on the part of the owner, I just may be able to resolve the issue and take the job.

I've seen a few buildings that had multiple hives that were sprayed, honey stains in more than a few locations and the situation is just too unclear to get a hold on things.

I don't have a problem with politely declining on some of these, I try and avoid dealing with nightmares if I can help it.

...JP

Rebel Rose Apiary · May 10, 2009, 10:59:17 AM

I am with JP, I am going to do whatever it takes to avoid nightmares like this one was! I got home late last night to find another message on my answering machine....from the same people of course, and they left me a message that they had found someone to get the bees! :shock: But they had given the new 'beekeeper' my phone number and he was going to call me.... :?

This morning, I got a phone call at about 7:am my time. It was this poor 'beekeeper' that had bought a beekeeping kit last winter and had read all of the book that came with the kit... :-\ He went on to tell me that he had never had bees before, but he felt that he could get these bees with my HELP.
I tried to tell him that it was not worth the effort and why, but he would not listen...so I told him "GOOD LUCK" and hung up the phone. I guess I need to order one of those kits so I can be as confident as he is. :roll:

After reading the book he got in the kit, he KNOWS that he cannot get stung with a suit, gloves and veil, as they are all sting proof....he also knows that the bees need LOTS of smoke to calm them and they can be taken out with a shop vac! He also said that since I was a girl it probably was a good thing that I had not tried to do this one alone.... :-X I ain't saying what i am thinking here.... :-\

Brenda

fermentedhiker · May 10, 2009, 11:11:53 AM

Quote from: Rebel Rose Apiary on May 10, 2009, 10:59:17 AM
I am with JP, I am going to do whatever it takes to avoid nightmares like this one was! I got home late last night to find another message on my answering machine....from the same people of course, and they left me a message that they had found someone to get the bees! :shock: But they had given the new 'beekeeper' my phone number and he was going to call me.... :?

This morning, I got a phone call at about 7:am my time. It was this poor 'beekeeper' that had bought a beekeeping kit last winter and had read all of the book that came with the kit... :-\ He went on to tell me that he had never had bees before, but he felt that he could get these bees with my HELP.
I tried to tell him that it was not worth the effort and why, but he would not listen...so I told him "GOOD LUCK" and hung up the phone. I guess I need to order one of those kits so I can be as confident as he is. :roll:

After reading the book he got in the kit, he KNOWS that he cannot get stung with a suit, gloves and veil, as they are all sting proof....he also knows that the bees need LOTS of smoke to calm them and they can be taken out with a shop vac! He also said that since I was a girl it probably was a good thing that I had not tried to do this one alone.... :-X I ain't saying what i am thinking here.... :-\

Brenda

Hah, he's in for some surprises for sure. The sad thing is by the time he learns his lesson he'll have done something to upset those picky homeowners and they'll end up taking him to court to fix something. Oh well everybody has to learn somethings for themselves.

G3farms · May 10, 2009, 11:28:47 AM

Why would he need your help since you are only a "GIRL"!!

HAHAHAHA I got a good laugh out of that, anybody that fools with bees on a regular basis is usually a very hard worker, it is not the most easy hobby or job there is. Takes a lot of thinking since each job is the same but has a different set up.

I hope he has a bottle of benadryl in the truck!!

You should call him back in about a week to see how he made out, hahahahaha I just can't quit laughing.

G3

SgtMaj · May 10, 2009, 11:51:56 AM

Well, at least the lawsuit will be his problem... still, don't be surprised if the homeowners don't call you back just to say that he got them out just fine and that you just must not be as professional as this new guy that's never seen a honey bee in real life before is. In fact, I'll put the old mortamer dollar bet on it!

Kathyp · May 10, 2009, 12:07:49 PM

Quoteanother one was 'jellow jackets' and not honey bees

i ask people to email me a picture. this cuts down on the yellow jacket calls, but does not eliminate them. you have to factor in the people who, being afraid of the "bees", will go out the door and take a picture of the first thing they see on a flower. this is usually a honey bee. when you arrive, you will be directed to the base of a tree and a nest of yellow jackets :-\ .

as for the girl thing, it has it's advantages. i am sure that some of the calls i have gotten from women have come because i am female. i have also had problems with some of the boys, being accused of going about scooping up low hanging swarms and leaving the hard stuff to them. at the time i had that email exchange, i had not caught any swarms. i had only done cutouts.

word of advice: trust your instincts. i have gotten some hinky calls. if the call gives you the creeps, don't go! if you get there and it feels wrong, leave. i carry when i go out, but that may not be an option for you. it's also kind of a PIA when you are doing cutouts.

Rebel Rose Apiary · May 10, 2009, 12:44:49 PM

Quote from: kathyp on May 10, 2009, 12:07:49 PM
word of advice: trust your instincts. i have gotten some hinky calls. if the call gives you the creeps, don't go! if you get there and it feels wrong, leave. i carry when i go out, but that may not be an option for you. it's also kind of a PIA when you are doing cutouts.

I was in the repo business for more years than I care to admit, thanks to a male friend I had known since we were toddlers and I learned a lot; taking a car from some people is about as deadly as hugging rattlesnakes. I can handle about anything that they throw at me....and yes, as I usually go alone, I do go protected. :evil:

I live in a rural/farming area known for meth manufacturing, so I take precautions as needed even when I answer my front door.

I also get calls from little old ladies who are afraid of strange men in 'masks' (veils) or pest control people and they feel much more at ease when I show up to remove the bees. One older lady told me that she had shut off one room of her house, as she was worried about the bees stinging her and her dog.....but did not want to run the risk of having a strange man in her home as she lived alone....then she heard about me and was more than pleased to get rid of those bees! Hers required a very large cut out and I had six totes full of honey comb after I tossed the junk comb into trash bags. I took her some honey later on and she and I are now good friends.

I do feel sorry for the new guy. He told me that he had never been stung by anything and I hope that he is not allergic! I tried to find out what company he ordered the suit and kit from, but he would not tell me! He leaned towards the idea that I wanted to get the book so I knew as much as he did about bees!

I told him early in the phone call that I would give him a few frames of brood and a nuc so he had some bees to start with...and he refused to hear of it!

Who sells those instant professional kits???

Brenda

Kathyp · May 10, 2009, 01:21:18 PM

there ya go :-D

iddee · May 10, 2009, 01:45:32 PM

All young ladies should be cross trained in more than one field....

Rebel Rose Apiary · May 11, 2009, 11:49:22 AM

iddee,

That seems to be another family tradition that we share! ;) I grew up with a gun in my hands! I love the pictures!

Brenda

lenape13 · May 11, 2009, 12:39:15 PM

People can be such idiots, at times. While this is my first year as a beekeeper, I do work for others, mainly yardwork and small maintainance jobs. One thing I can't stand is someone with no idea of what is involved in a job trying to tell me how to do it. I can't tell you how many times I have walked away from a tree trimming or removal simply because the homeowner tells me how he would cut it. (Meanwhile he doesn't know the difference between a chainsaw and a hammer... :?) In situations like that, it is far better to walk away.

As for women in the workforce, my mother worked with my father and I in our tree cutting for many years, until illness prevented it. Now my girlfriend helps, while working her own full-time job, plus raising chickens and helping me with my bees. (Oh, and yes, she's been known to pick up a rifle and shoot at Bambi and his kin, too! 8-)) I guess someone needs to educate the lad...

Scadsobees · May 11, 2009, 01:39:07 PM

Quote from: Rebel Rose Apiary on May 10, 2009, 10:59:17 AM

After reading the book he got in the kit, he KNOWS that he cannot get stung with a suit, gloves and veil, as they are all sting proof....he also knows that the bees need LOTS of smoke to calm them and they can be taken out with a shop vac! He also said that since I was a girl it probably was a good thing that I had not tried to do this one alone.... :-X I ain't saying what i am thinking here.... :-\

Brenda

Hilarious! I can just see this poor ignorant know-it-all opening up the shop vac and pouring the pile of squished bee parts into the hive kit thinking "Boy these are sure docile. Maybe I should pour some sugar water on them to liven them up a little"!!!

Sorry, what is sure a PIA for you sure makes good conversation here!! :-P

Rick