Cut Out from a Cave?!?

luvin honey · June 25, 2009, 11:54:07 PM

My husband's cousin's family says they have seen a lot of bees coming from a hole in a bluff. The hole is approximately 6-12" diameter and 20 feet up the rock face. Apparently, family lore says this has been a honey bee spot for many, many decades, possibly 50. (insert drooly face)

I am such a greedy hog for honey and don't have huge hopes for my first-year hives, especially since they need to survive a WI winter.

Any ideas on how on earth a person could try a cut-out in a spot like this? Would it be pure insanity?

JP · June 26, 2009, 12:01:13 AM

I can understand you wanting to get more honey and bees, but I would leave them alone, they sound like a really cool colony that really just needs to be there. Besides, they aren't bothering anyone, so why bother with them? Just my two cents, no offense, please.

...JP

Kathyp · June 26, 2009, 12:08:36 AM

set a box out. maybe they will swarm. i'm with JP. i'd leave the hive.

iddee · June 26, 2009, 12:14:25 AM

Have someone hide a jar of honey in the hole the night before. Then you can do an easy "cutout" the next day. :roll: :-D

luvin honey · June 26, 2009, 12:30:00 AM

You know what, JP? I completely agree. That's why I admitted my greediness. What I would really like to do is have a swarm-trap box there when they throw off one of their swarms, unless this is a enormous cave and they haven't ever swarmed :) Anyway, just thought I would toss it out to fantasize on. But, you're right. a beaut like this deserves to make honey in peace. I'll just be glad for feral bee genetics out and about.

luvin honey · June 26, 2009, 12:32:48 AM

Idee--You're hilarious. And right on the money! Even that much would probably be more than I could handle at this point in my beekeeping life :)

Kathy--I'm going to seriously read up on that and consider for next year. Thanks!

JP · June 26, 2009, 12:35:05 AM

Find you a nice spot about a hundred yards away and place you a swarm trap. Visit that cave and observe that hive every wonderful chance you can.

...JP

luvin honey · June 26, 2009, 12:41:36 AM

JP--Since reading your signature line, I'm going to hope you don't mind a few questions about catching a swarm.

I'm in central WI. Blackberry bloom is done--we have locust, clover, some sunflowers, wildflowers right now.

Would hives still be getting ready to swarm?

Would a cardboard box with lid, entrance and cottonballs soaked in lemongrass oil do the trick (or at least be a good idea)?

How often would I want to check (it's about 7 miles away, but my husband works nearby) this box? At what point could I assume it is not going to happen?

Thanks :D

luvin' honey (but trying to get it respectfully :))

JP · June 26, 2009, 12:52:06 AM

I don't really know your particular area so it would be hard to answer the question. Here in southeast, Louisiana as long as its hot we can get a swarm.

Anything can pretty much work to catch a swarm, but bigger is always better. A five gallon bucket works well with a little rigging.

I like to put a piece of old comb and lemon grass in the swarm box.

Cotton balls will work for a short while, consider a vial or placing the cotton ball inside a medicine capsul or a zip lock baggie.

...JP

Rebel Rose Apiary · June 26, 2009, 10:40:20 AM

Ok, I have done my fair share of caving....so I am interested. Is there a back entrance to the cave? Or is it more of a 'bubble' in the rock face? The kind that is found in layers of rock, as to true caves found in solid rock.

Most of the true cave 'tunnels' are formed by the erosive actions of water or wind on the rock over millions of years. There should/might be another larger entrance higher up; water runs down 'ya know, so look above the entrance the bees use.

It might be intersting to check out and then you can observe the colony from the inside in 'air conditioned comfort! Which makes me wonder about the cave conditions again....as true caves are at about 50-55 degrees, which is pretty cool for raising brood unless you have lots of bees!

Brenda

TwT · June 26, 2009, 10:47:37 AM

Quote from: JP on June 26, 2009, 12:35:05 AM
Find you a nice spot about a hundred yards away and place you a swarm trap. Visit that cave and observe that hive every wonderful chance you can.

...JP

this is what I would do also.

Eshu · June 26, 2009, 11:34:56 AM

I have seen a couple colonies in shallow hollows in cliffs in central New Mexico. They are an interesting sight to see - I would leave it for others to experience.

You wouldn't get much out of it and you may regret messing with it.

luvin honey · June 26, 2009, 02:25:49 PM

I guess I should say "possible" cave, or "hole in the rock" or "cavernous bluff." I haven't seen it myself, so it's hard to say. We have lots of limestone bluffs around here, caverns and caves. Also lots of smaller hollows, like the type you would picture a bear denning up in. I would have to see it myself to begin to guess.

I can SO picture regretting messing with it, 20 feet up, on an extension ladder, getting attacked by a very strong ticked-off colony!

I will leave it be. If I get the chance, though, I would like to get as close as I can just to observe it, see what the bees look like--color and size--and try to figure out more about it.

JP · June 26, 2009, 04:43:30 PM

Take some pics if you can. Would love to see them, this cave colony has me intrigued.

...JP

Rodni73 · June 27, 2009, 12:09:37 AM

When I was a kidd in the 1980's, there was a series of caves connected underground. In three of the caves there were massive bee colonies. This is prior to the veroa outbreak of the late 1980's! Anyhow, my grand father used to say that those bees were there for as long as he can remember. He told me that all of my uncle's colonies in the apple orchards were swarms of those bees.

Back in 1983 we had a neighbor nicknamed Billy Bob who was a contractor for the mines. One day in the summer, Billy threw a stick and dynamited the caves and killed all the bees. He gathered and filled loads of buckets with honey. Most fermented and rotted away in his garage..... And there were no more bees! I would beg to get a queen from those bees! They were yellow with a small black/copper gray patch at the tip. Unfortunately when uncle passed away his children neglected the hives and the orchards! The orchards now is a parking lot in a shoping center!

Leave the bees alone, I second JP. No offence please also!

-Rodni

joker1656 · June 27, 2009, 01:43:18 AM

I agree with all of you, on the intrigue. I am not qualified to agree on some of the issues, but they definitely sound like good advice. As far as that goes, from my short tenure here, everybody that gave advice in this thread KNOWS what to do, so I try to listen LOL.

I hope you can get some good pics. It would be enlightening, I am sure, to be able to observe them from inside their cave. Hope it works out well for you.

luvin honey · June 27, 2009, 10:59:56 AM

Please rest assured, everyone--I will NOT mess with these bees. If they have the genetics to make it this long, they are dearly needed in my area. It IS a bit tempting, though, no?

I think that next spring (too busy right now), I will work out a swarm box and try to get it near them. That would be a really neat way to get to enjoy their hardiness.

Thanks for all the good advice!

Rodni--How purely disgusting to hear of those cave bees from your childhood! What a shame how easily we wipe other creatures out...