Queen from worker egg

Started by Joelel, June 27, 2009, 08:19:21 PM

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Joelel

June 27, 2009, 08:19:21 PM
Will a hive build and cap a queen cells from worker eggs ?
Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation

asprince

#1
June 27, 2009, 08:22:41 PM
No. An egg from a laying worker is unfertilized.

Steve
Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resembalance to the first. - Ronald Reagan

Joelel

#2
June 27, 2009, 08:29:41 PM
Quote from: asprince on June 27, 2009, 08:22:41 PM
No. An egg from a laying worker is unfertilized.

Steve

I know it will not make a queen but will they try and cap a queen cell ?
Or if it's caped it's a queen laid egg ?
Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation

Robo

#3
June 27, 2009, 08:57:33 PM
Quote from: Joelel on June 27, 2009, 08:29:41 PM
I know it will not make a queen but will they try and cap a queen cell ?

Yes they will.
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


Bushkill Bee Vac - Less Stress, MORE LIVE BEES!
Bushkill Bee Blog

iddee

#4
June 27, 2009, 08:58:35 PM
Under the right circumstances, "or should I say wrong" they will raise a queen drone. Just before the hive dies.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

asprince

#5
June 27, 2009, 09:05:09 PM
Thanks guys, I learned something new today.

Steve
Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resembalance to the first. - Ronald Reagan

Joelel

#6
June 27, 2009, 09:19:56 PM
Can the hive survive if we put a frame of brood and eggs from an other hive ? Is there anything we can do to save the hive ? Maybe introduce a new queen ?
Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation

Robo

#7
June 27, 2009, 09:25:27 PM Last Edit: June 27, 2009, 09:47:52 PM by Robo
If you keep adding fresh brood religiously,  the laying workers will subside and eventually they will raise a queen from the brood you provide.

Or a long term queen introduction is an option.
http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,23359.msg180437.html#msg180437
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


Bushkill Bee Vac - Less Stress, MORE LIVE BEES!
Bushkill Bee Blog

Joelel

#8
June 27, 2009, 09:30:40 PM
Quote from: Robo on June 27, 2009, 09:25:27 PM
If you keep adding fresh brood religiously,  the laying workers will subside and eventually they will raise a queen from the brood you provide.

Or you a long term queen introduction is an option.
http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,23359.msg180437.html#msg180437

What is this ? Or you a long term queen introduction is an option.
Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation

Joelel

#9
June 27, 2009, 09:43:37 PM
Quote from: iddee on June 27, 2009, 08:58:35 PM
Under the right circumstances, "or should I say wrong" they will raise a queen drone. Just before the hive dies.

Will the hive survive with a queen drone or can a queen drone raise a hive ?
Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation

Robo

#10
June 27, 2009, 09:48:45 PM
Quote from: iddee on June 27, 2009, 08:58:35 PM
they will raise a queen drone. Just before the hive dies.
"Opportunity is missed by most people because it comes dressed in overalls and looks like work." - Thomas Edison


Bushkill Bee Vac - Less Stress, MORE LIVE BEES!
Bushkill Bee Blog

Joelel

#11
June 27, 2009, 09:58:44 PM
Quote from: Robo on June 27, 2009, 09:48:45 PM
Quote from: iddee on June 27, 2009, 08:58:35 PM
they will raise a queen drone. Just before the hive dies.

Will the hive survive with a queen drone or can a queen drone raise a hive ?
Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation

iddee

#12
June 27, 2009, 10:05:05 PM
Did you not read "just before a hive dies"

NO, a hive cannot live with a drone queen.

BOYS DON'T LAY EGGS.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

Ross

#13
June 27, 2009, 11:31:52 PM
Queens are always raised from worker eggs, i.e. eggs that would otherwise become workers.  They may try to do otherwise, but it won't work.  Work eggs are fertilize.  To become a queen, they are fed royal jelly.  The optimum timing is 4 days after an egg is layed, the day it hatches.  Now, if you are talking about laying worker eggs, these are drone eggs, i.e. they hatch out to drones.
www.myoldtools.com
Those who don't read good books have no advantage over those who can't---Mark Twain

Joelel

#14
June 28, 2009, 01:05:44 AM
Where do bees get royal jelly from to make queens ?
Acts2:37: Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38: Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39: For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.
40: And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation

Cheryl

#15
June 28, 2009, 01:09:42 AM
http://forum.beemaster.com/index.php/topic,23349.msg180341.html#msg180341

Quote from: Joelel on June 26, 2009, 12:57:00 PM
Quote from: dogdrs on June 26, 2009, 12:01:21 PM
As I posted yesterday, I am splitting a two deep hive this weekend and putting in a new, purchased queen in a queen cage.  My plan is to take the box of bees to a new location probably Saturday then introduce the queen on Sunday.  After 24 hrs I'm hoping she will be accepted.  My question is, how long does it usually take the workers to eat through the candy plug?  Will it be enough time for them to be accepting or should I keep the candy covered for a few days?

INSTRUCTIONS FOR INTRODUCING QUEENS
You should have read one of the books on beekeeping that we list in our brochure. For those who have not, here are some brief instructions:

Make sure your hive is queenless. (Finding queens for requeening colonies is a subject for another set of instructions). You may install the new queen immediately after killing the old one but it is best to wait a day, or you may wait as long as four or five days. Remove the cork from the candy end of the queen mailing cage. If the candy is hard, make a small nail hole almost all the way through it. If the candy is soft, don't do anything with it. It is not necessary to remove the attendant bees from the queen cage, but some beekeepers believe it helps. If you have 10 frames in your hive you might have to remove one of the wall combs to be able to wedge the queen cage between two of the center combs with the screen on the cage exposed downward so the bees in your hive can communicate with the queen. The cage should be slanted with the candy end lower that the other end. The queen must be placed in the part of the hive where the bees are clustered. Close the hive and wait five to seven days before opening it. At that time the queen should be out of the cage, and she should have laid eggs in one or two of the combs. If she is not out of the cage, release her by taking the screen off, then check back in four or five days to see if she is laying.

If you know a method that works for you then use it.

Hives that have been queenless so long that all of the brood has hatched out, and hives that have developed laying workers do not accept new queens very well. Such hives should be given one or two combs with open brood in them from another hive if you have it available before you introduce the new queen.


We are what we repeatedly do.
Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.
~ Aristotle

Ross

#16
June 28, 2009, 11:00:44 AM
The bees produce royal jelly as they need it.  All larva get some, larva destined to be queens get it exclusively for the first four days.
www.myoldtools.com
Those who don't read good books have no advantage over those who can't---Mark Twain

doak

#17
June 28, 2009, 11:19:19 AM
Never heard of a "drone" queen.
If they have a laying worker they consider their selves queen right.
They will not exist long enough to decide to super cede the laying worker.
They art contently doomed.
Shouldn't be to hard to under stand.
you cannot make an apple out of an orange.

Take them about 100 yards from there location, take the frames out and shake the bees off onto the ground. Take the hive back to its location and add a caged queen no sooner than 24 hours.
Or take the colony and combine with another colony, using the news paper method.
There will be no queen fight because because there is only one queen.

You can keep adding frames of brood and eggs from another colony, a loose loose situation.
If they don't rear a queen from the first time, why keep going.

An unproductive colony is no good for the over all. :)doak

Kathyp

#18
June 28, 2009, 11:30:36 AM
QuoteOr take the colony and combine with another colony, using the news paper method.

i have  heard not to do this.  that the laying workers will kill your queen in the queen-right hive?  seems shaking them would accomplish basically the same thing as they would join other hive/hives...??
The people the people are the rightful masters of both congresses and courts not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it.

Abraham  Lincoln
Speech in Kansas, December 1859

doak

#19
June 28, 2009, 12:25:10 PM
Deciding what to do about the colony can be solved.

What cannot be solved is making a queen out of a worker "laid" egg.
The queen determines what the egg will be when it is laid.
No matter how much royal jelly it gets it is still a drone if it was a drone egg to begin with.
Royal Jelly doesn't change the "sex" of an egg. It only enhances the development of what is already there.

There has been no concrete evidence  that very many drones from laying workers
Can mate with a queen and produce viable off spring.
Even if the drone can successfully mate with a queen and she lays fertile and un fertile eggs,
Then it is not known what the workers will be like or if they reared a queen from these fertile eggs and it did produce a queen, it is not known what she would be like.

It might just be that any thing like this, if produced enough bees of both sexes could lead to the extinction of the honey bee, and we don't want that.

I think kathyp's suggestion would be the best approach, just shake them out and add the equipment to another colony.

I hope some one understands my point.
:)doak
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