swarm shape - queen right?

Started by beecanbee, September 02, 2009, 04:18:32 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Print
Go Down Pages1
User actions

beecanbee

September 02, 2009, 04:18:32 PM
With mellifera, can you tell if a queen is in the swarm by the looks of the clump?  With cerana, if the swarm is roughly symmetrical in shape and teardrop in appearance, you have a queen.  If there is no queen, the swarm will be oddly shaped, possibly elongated, or with ribs, etc.  Does swarm shape tell you anything about a mellifera swarm?
"I come from a state that raises corn and cotton and cockleburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I am from Missouri. You have got to show me."  Duncan Vandiver

A boy can do half the work of a man, but two boys do less, and three boys get nothing done at all. :)

(False) Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.  - Samuel Johnson

David LaFerney

#1
September 02, 2009, 09:57:12 PM
Quote from: beecanbee on September 02, 2009, 04:18:32 PM
With mellifera, can you tell if a queen is in the swarm by the looks of the clump?  With cerana, if the swarm is roughly symmetrical in shape and teardrop in appearance, you have a queen.  If there is no queen, the swarm will be oddly shaped, possibly elongated, or with ribs, etc.  Does swarm shape tell you anything about a mellifera swarm?

Why would they swarm without a queen?  To reduce the population of the parent hive by commiting mass suicide?
"It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." Samuel Clemens

Putting the "ape" in apiary since 2009.

Kathyp

#2
September 02, 2009, 10:09:30 PM
i don't know that i have ever found one without a queen, but i sure have found them with virgin queens, and they don't always make it.  i have found that those swarms with virgins have a much higher number of drones with them. 
The people the people are the rightful masters of both congresses and courts not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert it.

Abraham  Lincoln
Speech in Kansas, December 1859

beecanbee

#3
September 03, 2009, 03:10:03 AM
Quote from: David LaFerney on September 02, 2009, 09:57:12 PM
Why would they swarm without a queen? 

Cerana frequently abscond without the queen.  If the queen died and wax moths took over - they abscond and gather into what may look like a swarm, but an ill-shapen one and of no value.  If I upset them thru inspection or harvesting they may swarm (with the queen, along with nurse bees staying behind) - but the clump will be ill-shapen.  However, if it is nicely shaped - I must try to recapture them, since it contains the queen.  If ill-shapen, I don't bother.

The question.... with mellifera can you tell anything about the queen from the appearance of the swarm?
"I come from a state that raises corn and cotton and cockleburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I am from Missouri. You have got to show me."  Duncan Vandiver

A boy can do half the work of a man, but two boys do less, and three boys get nothing done at all. :)

(False) Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.  - Samuel Johnson

beecanbee

#4
September 03, 2009, 03:30:04 AM
Quote from: kathyp on September 02, 2009, 10:09:30 PM
i don't know that i have ever found one without a queen

Maybe this is the answer to my question... if mellifera generally do not abscond... Maybe any swarm you come across can be assumed to be queen-right?
"I come from a state that raises corn and cotton and cockleburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I am from Missouri. You have got to show me."  Duncan Vandiver

A boy can do half the work of a man, but two boys do less, and three boys get nothing done at all. :)

(False) Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.  - Samuel Johnson

bee-nuts

#5
September 03, 2009, 03:49:21 AM
It sounds to me like two different behavior patterns from two different races of bee.  As far as I know millifeera will not swarm/abscond because they are queenless.  They will abscond if conditions are poor, but I dont think they will without a queen.  A hive does sound different when queen-less though.

Maybe someone else knows different.  
The moment a person forms a theory, his imagination sees in every object only the traits which favor that theory

Thomas Jefferson

bee-nuts

#6
September 03, 2009, 03:53:54 AM
beecanbee

How do you house your bees?  Do you use langstroth or similar hives or something completely different.
The moment a person forms a theory, his imagination sees in every object only the traits which favor that theory

Thomas Jefferson

beecanbee

#7
September 03, 2009, 05:06:19 AM
Quote from: bee-nuts on September 03, 2009, 03:53:54 AM
beecanbee

How do you house your bees?  Do you use langstroth or similar hives or something completely different.

I am using Langs for the mellifera - but upright boxes (known as AYs) for the cerana.  The AY is like a Lang brood box stood on its side - that is, tall and narrow, ten frame.

I have not yet encountered a mellifera swarm - hence my questions, as I was basing it against my experience with cerana.  I think as bee-nuts said - two different behaviour patters.  Hence I am unlikely to encounter a queenless mellifera swarm (but do so regularly with cerana).
"I come from a state that raises corn and cotton and cockleburs and Democrats, and frothy eloquence neither convinces nor satisfies me. I am from Missouri. You have got to show me."  Duncan Vandiver

A boy can do half the work of a man, but two boys do less, and three boys get nothing done at all. :)

(False) Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel.  - Samuel Johnson
Print
Go Up Pages1
User actions