Moisture build-up in the hive question

jester7891 · October 28, 2009, 10:41:23 AM

I read an answer from another member 1-2 days ago that concerns me about moisture build up in the (2) hives. I live in NW New Jersey and it has been raining a lot recently. I have been feeding sugar water for the past few weeks and the bees have been finishing the top feeder dry within 1-2 days (bone dry). Hives otherwise look in good shape. Can I continue with this or should I go to sugar only. If so, what's the best method for putting the sugar on the top super? Regular or confectionery sugar? Thanks, Jester.

Robo · October 28, 2009, 11:16:45 AM

If it where me, I would have stopped feeding syrup a month ago. Feed granulated sugar on top of frames

Finski · October 28, 2009, 12:48:46 PM

.
When I feed my hives, I feed them with 63% sugar syrup what ever weather it is. No choices.
Feeding takes one week.
Just keep the hive warm and feed it full that they cap the food. So I have done 47 yeard and no problems for feeding weathers.

Sunny days are coming there
http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/channel?section=weather/forecast&id=6650536

Finski · October 28, 2009, 12:51:38 PM

.
You say that you have feeded for past few weeks
That is not correct because it encourage to brood rearing. If it is upper feeding box, it keeps the hive cool.

One box langstroth I feed full in 2 days and for two box I keep a pause and feed the rest after 7 days.
Pause helps in syrup drying.

Kathyp · October 28, 2009, 01:03:02 PM

Quote
Pause helps in syrup drying.

i wondered about that. i did it that way accidentally this year. they seemed to take it better and it was fairly quickly capped. didn't know if it was the feeding, or the fact that we had some unusually warm and dry weather....or both :-)

Finski · October 28, 2009, 01:39:23 PM

.

When I feed hives, bees have still some frame of brood.
A pause gives time that brood emerges and bees have free combs to fill the centre of hive.
Finally bees move food from cold corners to the site of last brood.

Hemlock · October 28, 2009, 05:18:58 PM

1). Do you know how they are doing with the winter stores?
2). Do yo use any passive ventilation? (SBB or vented top)

I had a hive with condensation last winter. I do believe I fed them too long (past their want for it). This year I've added ventilation plus I am closely monitoring their over wintering stores. Which are just at full now & their demand has dwindled.

Finski · October 29, 2009, 12:13:11 AM

Quote from: Hemlock on October 28, 2009, 05:18:58 PM

I had a hive with condensation last winter. I do believe I fed them too long

When bees process they winter storage, the tmp in the hive is quite high and they dry up the syrup and cap it. After that the hive has normal moisture and there is no condensation after that. Feeded water do not stay many days in the hive.

I have had bad problems when I have fed too much to big colonies. They are not able to cap foo in all cold corners, syrup have fermented and bees have walker out to die during frost.

So nowdays I look with bathroom balance that the hive has enough food but not more.

[/quote]
I am closely monitoring their over wintering stores. [/quote]

Monitoring does not help. My hives are now in peace 5 months and nothing is to be done.

trixyb · November 01, 2009, 05:50:02 PM

Or you could just leave them as I do. Snow is the best insulation. These hives were totally under the snow with top entrances and a 2.5" top ventilation hole. These hives were quite strong in the spring.

Hemlock · November 01, 2009, 10:53:30 PM

The more I read the more I like the the top entrance idea. But how would I work that in with a Hive-top feeder?

Michael Bush · November 02, 2009, 07:29:08 AM

>The more I read the more I like the the top entrance idea. But how would I work that in with a Hive-top feeder?

I put shingle shims under each side to make the entrance and a piece of shingle shim or a piece of screen mold or whatever for an entrance reducer across the front.

Hemlock · November 02, 2009, 11:19:01 AM

Quote from: Michael Bush on November 02, 2009, 07:29:08 AM
>TI put shingle shims under each side to make the entrance and a piece of shingle shim or a piece of screen mold or whatever for an entrance reducer across the front.

So the Top Entrance is located immediately beneath the HTF. Got it. Do I need to close off the regular bottom entrance then?

Thanks.

Michael Bush · November 02, 2009, 07:21:00 PM

You don't have to close off the bottom entrance, but it will keep out the mice and train them to use the top one.

Hemlock · November 03, 2009, 12:26:13 AM

Thanks.

Cindi · November 03, 2009, 11:16:44 AM

Hmm, question added. If there is not a notch, hole, space in the top of a colony for humidity release, how do the bees make out?

KathyP, I recall that you have said that you operate your colonies with no ventilation holes in the top. I really wonder where the moisture from the colony goes to. Do you know?

The concern with too much moisture in the colony is that the moisture can condense on the inside of the inner cover and "rain" down on the bees. I would love to hear some comments here.

I have always had a slot in the front of my inner cover. It is standard practice here to be able to only purchase ones with that slot, never seen an inner cover without that slot for sale. Elaborate please....have that most wonderful, most awesome day, health. Cindi

bee-nuts · November 04, 2009, 04:58:02 AM

Quote from: Finski on October 28, 2009, 12:51:38 PM
.
You say that you have feeded for past few weeks
That is not correct because it encourage to brood rearing. If it is upper feeding box, it keeps the hive cool.

One box langstroth I feed full in 2 days and for two box I keep a pause and feed the rest after 7 days.
Pause helps in syrup drying.

Hmmm, I have been feeding for over a month because this October has been the coldest or one of the coldest on record in my part of wisconsin. Many beeks in a real pinch here. I have not been able to feed them consistently but when weather permits.

So did I do the wrong thing and encourage brood rearing? I have not been able to pull frames since mid September. There feeders were dry usually when I added more syrup. I have been really worried about my girls and if they are going to be alright. I have made some hive top feeders to feed sugar candy (If that what it really is, check out this link http://www.mdasplitter.com/docs/MAKING%20CANDY%20BOARDS.pdf ).

I like these because it provides a top entrance without drilling holes in boxes, without making notch in inner cover, and provides a way to winter feed sugar and pollen patties. I have not put these on yet because it was to cold or windy. I hope to put them on Thursday.

Anyway, is it really bad to feed 2 to 1 for and extended period of time like I have done?

Thanks

bee-nuts

Hemlock · November 04, 2009, 10:14:09 AM

@ bee-nuts,

'is it really bad to feed 2 to 1 for and extended period of time like I have done?'

All I know is that I am feeding my bees 2:1 syrup until that have topped off their reserves; until they stop taking it. One hive has already done so. Her deeps are filled. Another hive is still light in reserves. I will continue to feed her.

Very few beeks in this area got much honey this year. A good sign that the bees may not have ample stores for winter.

Hemlock · November 04, 2009, 11:03:45 AM

@ Cindi,

I do not know!

However, I have 2 hives. last winter they both comprised of a solid bottom board, 2 deep boxes, inner cover, & tin plated telescoping cover; plus I used entrance feeders. One hive got through winter without any problems at all. The other hive had condensation percolating down through the cluster and dripping out the bottom opening. This also led to moderate green mold stain on the wooden ware.

This winter both hives have a Screened bottom board, 2 deep boxes, hive-top feeder (for now), inner cover, vent box (3.5 inch super with 9 screened holes in it), & tin plated telescoping cover. The problem-free hive from last winter is doing well. The hive that had condensation problems last winter is already showing that green mold stain. I believe it has enough ventilation to prevent moisture problems but something is going on.

I wonder what genetics has to do with it. As some lines of bees have different hygienic habits might different lines have better moisture management habits?

Cindi · November 05, 2009, 11:39:42 PM

Quote from: Hemlock on November 04, 2009, 11:03:45 AM
However, I have 2 hives. last winter they both comprised of a solid bottom board, 2 deep boxes, inner cover, & tin plated telescoping cover; plus I used entrance feeders. One hive got through winter without any problems at all. The other hive had condensation percolating down through the cluster and dripping out the bottom opening. This also led to moderate green mold stain on the wooden ware.

I wonder what genetics has to do with it. As some lines of bees have different hygienic habits might different lines have better moisture management habits?

Hemlock, this is where I wonder...the condensation that percolated down through that cluster, sounds like you lost that colony? The reason why the water condensed down on the bees is most likely because the moisture from the consumption of honey, and other things that form moisture, had no where to escape to. Warm air rises, smiling. Perhaps it was a bigger colony, hence, more moisture than the other one that did not have a moisture problem. Only throwing guesses here, perhaps we will hear more about moisture in the hive, it is an interesting subject for surely.

I doubt very much that genetics has to do with some lines of bees managing moisture better, highly doubt it. Every living thing exudes moisture in one form or another.

I'm waiting for KathyP to respond. She does not have slots in her inner cover, but at the same time she has said that she feeds dry sugar, which helps to absorb the moisture. Kathy.......? Have that wonderful and most awesome day, healthy days. Cindi