Newbie and ordering Bees, Italian or Russian? Whats better?

Greg watkevich · January 21, 2010, 06:53:54 PM

Hey I am just getting into beekeeping and am building some hives, frames, etc and working on getting all the supplies. I need to place my order for bees this weekend. Should I get Italian or Russian and what makes one better than the other? Also, when just starting up how many nucs should I purchase? I was planning on getting two. Your comments are welcome.
Thanks Greg Watkevich

wfuavenger · January 21, 2010, 07:15:34 PM

I would recommend these two links from NC state:

types of honey bees and their traits

comparison of russian to italian

So to answer you.... Yes.

I would get 1 or two of each and see which you like more, then after a few years order 2 or three queens of the type you like and pinch the existing ones you dont.... I want to try russian, carniolian and italian. I am getting 2 italian mutts this spring and eventually 2 carni or 2 russian and then 2 of the other.

Greg watkevich · January 21, 2010, 07:34:36 PM

Thanks for the link to the comparison of the Italian and Russian bees. I think I like the idea of italians based on the high brooding all summer. On the otherhand, I am a little concerned about the Italian strain being more susceptable to disease, mites, etc. Is it true that brood size with Italians can get out of hand that it is a problem going into the winter and cause starvation?

Thanks Greg Watkevich

wfuavenger · January 21, 2010, 09:05:13 PM

You might want to let us know where you are. There is a big difference in overwintering in Florida vs Maine.

If you get your Italian from a reputible breeder, you should not have that many issues. Especially if the person uses IPM and selects for strong genetics.

As far as starvation goes, if you watch them and dont take too much honey off of them, you should have minimal feeding in an average year.

I forgot to add this link wikipedia honey bee types

Jim134 · January 22, 2010, 07:13:42 AM

I would recommend a newbie to keep Italian bees for 2 to 5 years before getting Russian bees.

You might want to let us know where you are it will help ?

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

indypartridge · January 22, 2010, 08:07:06 AM

As others have mentioned, you didn't state your location and that's an important consideration. I also believe that buying bees raised locally is more important than a particular type of bees. "Local survivor stock" is what you should look for.

Two Bees · January 22, 2010, 09:49:38 AM

I would agree with Jim................Italians are great for newbees. If you live in a colder climate, Russians might be advantageous. But I would get a few bee seasons behind me before expanding with Russians.

Greg watkevich · January 22, 2010, 06:39:14 PM

I am located in Massachusetts. Why would you suggest starting with the Italians and then switching over to Russians? Should I just start out with Russians? I am getting the bees from Georgia. Your comments are welcome.

Greg Watkevich

wd · January 22, 2010, 07:08:11 PM

Do to my current location, what holds me back from Russians is they're known to be on the mean side. Everything else about them is a good in my eyes. Italians are known to be gentle which great to start with.

Greg watkevich · January 22, 2010, 07:27:40 PM

Do Italians typically survive the winter in New England or should I look at another bee specie?

Greg Watkevich

wd · January 22, 2010, 08:56:48 PM

What I would do is look around at what other beekeepers have in the area you're in. Good Hybrid and mutt Italians are everywhere. Carniolans might be a line to look at. I wouldn't rule out Russians though I'd ask about temperament and hygiene on any. It depends on what you want.

Worcester County Beekeepers Association and some other resources

Jim134 · January 22, 2010, 09:01:56 PM

I like local survivor stock or mutts been keeping bees in Athol MA. for 52 years
this may help you

http://www.massbee.org/beeschools.shtml

http://www.massbee.org/

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

fish_stix · January 22, 2010, 09:25:37 PM

Quote from: wd on January 22, 2010, 07:08:11 PM
Do to my current location, what holds me back from Russians is they're known to be on the mean side. Everything else about them is a good in my eyes. Italians are known to be gentle which great to start with.
Quote

My son and I use all Russians and have found them to be as gentle as the Italians. I'm pretty sure this rumor got started by someone who was using 3rd and 4th generation Russian hybrids, open mated with whatever was out there. We have had very few hot hives (2 at most, out of 100) and we're in a known AHB area. When I say hot, I mean you would get maybe 5-10 stings from a particular hive. We work in shorts and tee shirts down here in FL and believe me , I would not tolerate mean bees for a New York minute! :roll:

Bee Whisper82 · January 22, 2010, 09:57:23 PM

I would go with Italians like the others have said. The italians are very gentle and great for a new beekeeper like your self.

Wynoochee_newbee_guy · January 22, 2010, 11:57:13 PM

I have Italian Cordoven bees gental nice bees I wanted Russians but they are fickle. Want to swarm more.

brer · January 23, 2010, 12:38:52 AM

I'm a newbee too. Just ordered my italians for spring. I went with them because the general consensus is that they are easier to start with.

Greg watkevich · January 23, 2010, 06:18:05 PM

Thanks for all the good advice. I plan on sticking with the Italians this year and will see how they work out. They are coming from Georgia, so I'm concerned about them making it through our New England winters. Greg Watkevich

charlotte · January 24, 2010, 07:09:32 PM

I like Carniolans for a norther climate. Gentle, not quite as swarmy as Russians & smaller broods than Italian. Also seem to be more disease resistant than Ital. IMO. Personally, I have tried Ital, Russian & Carniolans. They each have +/-.... Try them all eventually & decide what you like best :)

Rodni73 · January 24, 2010, 09:05:39 PM

My two cents:

I kept Italian Bees from Georgia (packaged bees) a year before but they did not survive because of a veroa kill and the Jersey winter. Then I got two nucs of Italian muts from a local beek last spring. They are still alive and kicking and are very resistant to veroa. I sugest you contact a local beek and get local bees who are allready thriving in your environment.

My Italians are mutts because some bees in the same hive do not have Italian features.

-Rodni

HAB · January 24, 2010, 09:29:05 PM

My first year went with Italians, very gentle, grew like the dickens. Then the SHB found them. They liked Italians too! Killed all my hives. Got no honey.

Second year got Russians. Not so gentle, and swarmed first year. Then the SHB found them. They didn't like the way the Russians kicked their butts and were never a problem!! Started year with 10 hives of Russians ended year with twenty, and sold 12 during the year. Got 30 gallons honey.

This year I'm starting with 17 hives of Russians. Last year was, by everyone's accounts, a bad year so I'm ordering a LOT of new woodenware and a lot more honey jars for this season. :bee: :bee: :bee: