Do "manicured" yards and Honey Bees mix?

[joker1656]

We have not treated our front two acres with anything for the last couple of years.  This year, though, the dandelions are phenomenal....not in a good way.  I really like having the yard "look purty".  Do herbicides/broadleaf weed killers affect the bees? 

I haven't looked at every dandelion, but have noticed an abscence of bees on them.  Early in the year they were all over them.  Now they seem to be elsewhere.  I am hoping this is a good time to spray.  Can you have both... a weed-free section of yard and bees???  Not worried about forage, just the chemical's effect on them.   

Vanity, Vanity.....all is vanity.

[Highlandsfreedom]

If it were me I would pull every weed and not spray them.  But thats just me...... 8-) :-D

[wd]

I stopped using everything but the occasional use of round up on my drive way and walk ways. Two acres can be alot to maintain for some with a busy schedule. How bout your nieghbors, are they using anything? I use hot water for the most part there which is time consuming. White clover and dandilions are spreading more and more each year. I do pull weeds when there's time and I let some tall fescue go to seed in spots then cut. it's helping with weed controll as it spreads but not 100 percent. There run off in the soils with chemicals. you might read the lables and see what they say before use.

 

[Kathyp]

spray early in the AM or after the bees have gone back to the hive.  use something like weedmaster than will not hurt the bees once dry and breaks down quickly.  sometimes you just have to spray, but what you use, and when, is everything.

[ccwonka]

My neighbor has switched to pure vinegar in a spray bottle, says it works just like roundup.  AND he did it just for my bees!  Giving away a little of the surplus to the neighbors pays benefits in more ways than just PR.  ;)

[Michael Bush]

I plant dandelions every chance I get.  I collect them from unmowed yards in town and have even bought them in the past from Gurneys (back in the 70's anyway they sold them).  I highly recommend  you not only don't kill them, but plant them.  I'm not sure bees would have survived this long without dandelions... they bloom everytime it rains all year long.  Let them go to seed.  Collect the heads as soon as they start getting white and sell them to me...

[BjornBee]

The U.S., unlike anywhere else in the world, has this "Perfect Lawn" mentality, which is very bad for bees.

The chemicals you can buy at the local hardware store, many times is more potent then the stuff that registered or licensed pesticide sprayers use. And when the directions say "Add 2 tablespoons per gallon of water" in the sprayer, we all know nobody is out there using a measuring spoon. It;'s the "one second, two second" pour method, then we add a few more (about a half cup) for good measure to make sure we kill it really dead.

The runoff from lawn applications effect our streams, pool in ponds where the toxicity builds up effecting the water your bees collect, and overall is a environmental hazard for your pets who have to walk on the applied chemicals, and where your kids or grandkids play.

I have family from Denmark that come over here and are always amazed at how much yard work we create for ourselves. New developments are full of lavish homes where they have cut down all the trees, then planted acres upon acres of  green grass.

Lawn company advertisements pit one neighbor against another as if having the most perfect lawn, which usually translates into who has used the most chemicals, is the supposed goal of every homeowner. And the homeowners buy into it, without thinking.

And don't buy into ANY label on the can, which may SUGGEST that the stuff is safe for bees. The stuff was probably tested by the very makers of the product. And do you really trust that type testing and marketing?  ;)

We now know that one of the main culprits of CCD, may very well be a fungicide, which happens to of been tested safe for bees. But when the stuff is mixed with any other chemical (and your bees are great at collecting all types of chemicals) the results are toxic and devastating to the bees. So don't buy into the whole "it's safe" for the bees. The lawn, the world, is one big bowl, where everything mixes, and your hive is a sponge to everything.

National Honey Bee Day, has included information of how homeowners and the public can help the bees. And perfect lawns and the stoppage of this insane approach of killing every dandelion and weed in the yard is a main topic.

Beekeepers need to lead by example. And having a few dandelions and clover in the yard is a perfect place to start. And we have no right to demand or even suggest to others about our bees dying, if we are part of the very problem with the environment that is killing bees.

[Kathyp]

not all of us have manicured yards.  some of us have acreage to manage.  none of us like using chemicals if we can get away from it.  sometimes we can't.

We now know that one of the main culprits of CCD, may very well be a fungicide, which happens to of been tested safe for bees.

we don't know this.  it's a suggestion that has been made.  might be true.  might not.

i wouldn't spray my dandelions either, but if he's going to choose to do so, he needs to know how to do it right.

[BjornBee]

Kathy,
It IS one of the main culprits that after 4 years and eliminating most other pesticides that people earlier on had pointed at have been eliminated as a "sole" factor. Recent research IS focused on a fungicide being perhaps a main trigger making many other chemicals more deadly once mixed with this particular fungicide. Is all the research out....No. Are they looking at and have shown this fungicide to be deadly once mixed with other chemicals....Yes. Is this the sole cause of CCD....Nobody knows yet.

Hence my use of the wording "....may very well be...." in my original post. So of course it is correct mentioning it may or may not be, which through association of your comments, makes mine sound like I was making concrete statements. Which is UNTRUE.

BTW....I heard for years the ole' "we just simply were doing what we needed to do" from the bee industry as I watched beekeepers pour straight Tactic and Maverik on cloth strips and throw the stuff into their hives. Of course mentioning this was reason to be attacked. And some of them are now on the front line attacking others, while pointing fingers, and making wild claims of the end of the earth. Hypocrisy at it's best.  ;)

And I would venture to say that a good number of farmers (and I know a few) are no more responsible in applying chemicals with disregard to bees or other ionsects in general terms. I see farmers spray throughout the day, even though they know that early morning or late evening spraying is best not just for bees, but the farmer through better application of the product.

I always think it's ironic when some suggest "doing what is needed" when the broader conversation is about the general use of chemicals, and some take it personal. Beekeepers have been poisoning their hives for years, and farmers have been spraying chemicals like it's candy. Not all beekeepers are responsible, and not all farmers are either.

But the "We just were doing what we needed to do" always rings a bit of truth that perhaps more was being used or applied beyond the standard application of the chemicals, or the responsible use that some seemingly suggests was always the case.

Having the mentality that a yard needs to be "weed free" (or insect free) just feeds into the overall attitude and viewpoint in society, that yards should be perfect manicured lawns. Look at the topic of the thread. Terms like "manicured" lawns, indicated to me that perhaps we should quit sugar coating this subject and just start teaching people to care less about what the neighbor thinks, and that a few dandelions and clover flowers are a beautiful thing. "Manicured" lawns are the ugly blight to the environment. Not the other way around.

[Kathyp]

in the main, i agree with you.  i just don't like to jump somebody for needing or even wanting to use chemicals.  they are probably going to do it.  better to educate them on how to do it more safely.

some spraying is unavoidable for me.  i will be the first to admit that i was much less careful about it before i kept bees.  bees were not even in my thinking when i was field spraying.  now i am much more careful about it.  if i still had the number of livestock i used to keep, i'd still field spray.  i'd do it differently.  now i let most of the fields go except for mowing.  i reserve spraying for those places that have no other solution.

chemicals have a proper and beneficial use.  better to educate people on that proper use.

[bigbearomaha]

 I have to put my chips in with the other guys.

I do not spray whatsoever and I love those dandies.

to me, a manicured yard is one that is mowed and trimmed
no weed killers, etc...

[Keith13]

cut the grass higher. It slows the grasses rate of growth down, which means less cuttting of the grass, and also makes it harder for "weeds" to get a foothold in the yard in the first place, thus reducing the need to spray

Keith

[BjornBee]

Kathy,
I do know a bit about your postings and stances. And so I hope you understand my comments.

My point is, the lawn care industry, along with such industries as the chemical companies, all sell the home owner of today, the concept that a "manicured" lawn is the Utopian mindset for all of us to achieve.

I'm not bashing farmers use of chemicals, or even homeowners who want nice lawns. Although I do think that some respond to a broad comment on the general use of chemicals, and feel compelled to defend or somehow justify their use, and ignore some of the misuse, and illegal chemicals being used both in the bee industry and farming in general.

I will not in any way, rationalize, justify, or give tacit approval of the overall messsage sent by chemicals companies, and the lawn care industry, that manicured lawns are a goal of home ownership. The pendulum needs to swing back in the other direction. And many times, the only way to do that is head on and straightforward. To me, suggesting that any homeowner should seek and desire a weedfree yard, and give advice on how to do it "Responsibly", only perpetuates the very notion and message that we should all desire and work towards a manicured lawn.

To answer the original question...."Do manicured lawns and honey bees mix"....the answer is NO! Unless you think mixing water and oil is a good thing. Way too many homeowners are striving for manicured lawns. Many old timers suggest that honey harvests are down compared to past seasons of years ago, even though the apiaries are still in the same place. And some say that it directly is connected to the selling of the "perfect" lawn industry of the past 20 years. I know when I was growing up, I certainly did not see the chem-lawn truck at my neighbors every other week spraying crap all over the place. But today, this "manicured lawn" industry is everywhere, to the detriment of many beekeepers trying to cling to a piece of nature, while trying to help the environment, keeping bees next to such homeowners.

I'm not against chemicals from a stance that they are all bad. But sometimes sitting on the fence, while justifying use here, sends the message that it is proper over there.

Other than a waste of your money, and the enhancement of a homeowners ego and pride, I can not think of one reason why a homeowner would seek a perfect manicured lawn whether using chemicals or any other approach deemed safe. Bees, butterflies, birds, native pollinators, and many other insects need those dandelions, clovers, and other weeds.

A sterile environment called a "manicured lawn" has no benefit to anyone except the selfish "I don't want bees, insects, weeds, or anything else on my little postage stamp property" homeowner who is the first to call the township because your bees visited one of his purchased crappy annual plants from the grocery store.  ;)

[csalt]

A weed is just a plant you don't want. I suggest doing a search about permaculture you can have a beautiful lawn using native plants and wildflowers and once established requires very little maintanence. Your be happy the bees would be happy and your land would thrive if done properly.

[Highlandsfreedom]

That's why I say to "hand pick" the weeds out of your yard. If you want to have a plain grass yard that does nothing but look "nice" then you would have braggin rites to the "clean yard". But... I'm an extremist.  :-D

[BjornBee]

For those interested, here is a site on this topic....

www.meadowsandmore.com

Please note how great the landscape looks in the pictures.... ;)  Nothing "manicured".  :)

[manfre]

The previous owner of my house owned a landscaping business and the lawn was manicured. Fast forward 2 years and the backyard looks more like a meadow with lots of clover and dandelions. There are still some patches of grass out there, but I'm working on fixing that. I constantly see bumblebees and my bees all over the "weeds", so I'm thinking they wouldn't do as well if the yard was just grass. The grass grows to a height that needs to be mowed a lot faster than the clover, but after it's mowed it all looks pretty much the same. Clover will also crowd out other undesired plants. I like the way a freshly cut lawn looks, but I don't like having to cut it almost every week.

[Flygirl]

I'm working to eliminate all the grass in my yard.  We've put in perennial garden beds with rock walkways ~ the rock heats up & helps to hold heat for the plants.  We have a blvd next to the sidewalk & I'm encouraging the dandeloins to grow!  They're beautiful, happy, plants.  My neighbors spray & complain about my "weeds."  I'm hoping they'll their dandeloins grow too....I'm trading honey for "weeds" this summer~  Flygirl

[Michael Bush]

I don't plant grass in my lawn... I plant dutch clover, birdsfoot trefoil, dandelions, chikory, white and yellow sweet clover... I can't think of anything uglier than a lawn of nothing but grass... looks like a desert to me... and I know it does to the bees...