Checked my two new hives today! Thanks MB these are foundation less

[harvey]

It has been two weeks since I put 3 pound packages in these two hives.  I placed them in the hive along with foundation less frames.  As of now they both have much capped brood, larva and capped honey!  They have by far outdone the hive last year that I put on plasticell from Dadent!!   and the comb is so nice and white.  I believe in about two more weeks when the brood starts to hatch that I will need to add another box.  I am trying to attach pictures of the beautiful comb!   

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[mdaniels]

Very, very neat--thanks for sharing those pics!

[Michael Bush]

You are welcome.  Didn't anyone warn you that bees can't draw comb without foundation?  ;)

[bull]

you got lucky , if i had done that it would have been a real mess. Lucky.

[The Bix]

Harvey,

Great shots!  I guess I've been lucky too. I am curious how you did your starter strips.  Looks like you have grooved frames and some kind of wood underneath the top bars.

[harvey]

MB  Yup several told me I was wrong and that the bee's wouldn't work the frames without foundation!!!  I was using Dadent frames with plasticell in them.  I just poped out the plasticell so the groove was still there.  I used a saw and cut strips of cedar, (it was handy) just the right size to fit the groove.  then I used the belt sander held in a vice to put a bevel on one edge.  I used tite-bond glue to glue the strips in.  I did put a few drops of bee's wax along the edge and I also put two full frames of honey from another hive in there.  To feed them and to help guide them into drawing it straight.   They have done wonders with their comb.  It is now almost a full box each and five frames have brood!!  They even have about a frame and a half of honey in there already?  I think probably in a week I will be adding another deep to each of them.  I never did feed them any sugar water, just the frames of honey.

[RZRBCK BEE]

Are you also going foundationless in the honey supers? How would they hold up in the extractor?

[harvey]

I plan on going foundationless in the supers too yes.  I believe once the comb has matured a little they will be fine.  Wait until they attach the comb to at least three sides of the frame.  I have a hand crank extractor so I don't have to go super fast.  I believe if I start out slow and then gradually increase the speed The combs will be alright.  I am not sure how they would hold up to an electric extractor if it goes real fast.  If nothing else if you did the crush and strain method I think it would be a world easier with out foundation or wires or all that other stuff. 

[RZRBCK BEE]

Crush and strain is out for me because as I have found out, comb is like gold. It just takes too long for them to make it and their time would be better spent filling the comb with honey instead. I have seriously been considering trying foundationless though but was wondering if I need to run some wires in the frames for support. Not real sure how to do it though or how complicated it is.

[melliphile]

Harvey,
  Did you just dump your bees into the hives? No drawn comb, no feed? Just as you would with foundation?

[Kathyp]

you don't need wires.  they build the comb as they need it and once it's attached and cured it's very strong.  crush and strain does not put an added burden on the bees.  when there is a good flow, they build comb.  as for extracting it, new comb can be a bit fragile, but even with foundation, you need to take care.  if the comb is attached all the way around, all you need to do is start spinning slowly...which you'll find you want to do anyway.

extracting is great if you just want the honey and are not doing cut comb.  if you only have a few frames, using the extractor is not worth the bother.  crush and strain is faster and easier.

how you take your honey just depends on your situation and set up.

[RZRBCK BEE]

I just ordered about 50 of these. Deeps and mediums so I shall try foundationaless and see what happens.

https://products.kelleybees.com/wtkprod/detail.aspx?item=1184

[harvey]

RZRCBK  Only thing I would do is make sure your hives are level!  I actually took a level down with me and checked, then put at least one drawn comb in there so they know which way the rest should hang.  Then I just dumped them in!   I did find out after i did it that you don't want to wedge the queen cage between two frames,  they build comb right off of the cage and not where you want it so I put the queen cage on top of the frames and then set the cover back on.  Worked well.   I think as long as you are using mediums or shallows to extract your honey would be fine. 

[RZRBCK BEE]

Two reasons that I have been thinking about using them is I heard they will draw them out faster than plastic and MB's suggestion on swarming about opening up the brood box. Anyway, time will tell.

[harvey]

My reasons for trying it were possible to get smaller cells and hopefully less varroa mights!  I have no intention of treating the bees so I want to do whatever I can to try and keep them naturally healthy.  The reason for not feeding is some of the things I read about chemicals in sugar beets and such.  Figure no one feeds them in the wild.  Course I AM NOT TRYING TO PRODUCE HONEY!  Just a little for me.  I realize that those who's lively hood requires faster buildup will do things different.  I respect that.  It just isn't what I wanted to do is all. 

[Sparky]

Here is a picture of a foundation less frame when you use the top wedge that has a taper cut to a point as a guide.



Uploaded with ImageShack.us

[FRAMEshift]

I just ordered about 50 of these. Deeps and mediums so I shall try foundationaless and see what happens.

https://products.kelleybees.com/wtkprod/detail.aspx?item=1184

I also bought these from the same source last week.... 50 deeps and 50 shallows.  I think MB is generating some business for those guys.  :-D

Just remember to paint a little wax on the top edge to give the girls a start.

Oh, did you see the crazy logo that kellybees uses on their invoices.  It's the founder's head on the body of a bee.  Not very charming.   :shock:

[FRAMEshift]

Crush and strain is out for me because as I have found out, comb is like gold. It just takes too long for them to make it and their time would be better spent filling the comb with honey instead.

Why can't you do crush and strain and then stick the wax back in the hive?  The bees will use it to rebuild comb won't they?  I would think making wax is much harder than just using wax to build new comb.

[Kathyp]

they don't rebuild with used wax.  to bad...i have tons of it   :-D

[FRAMEshift]

they don't rebuild with used wax.  to bad...i have tons of it   :-D

I know that they will remove wax from a foundation... to make passage ways and they also will remove wax on the sides near the bottom.  Do they just discard that wax?