cut out with NO brood??!?!?!

joker1656 · May 28, 2010, 10:39:16 PM

I did a cut out today. It was a fairly simple one, but there were no eggs, or brood. I am going back tomorrow to make sure that they did not have a hive on both sides of the exterior wall. I sure as heck hope not.

Anyway, the hive was in the balcony of an apartment building. It was between the joists and about 3+ feet long. I filled three buckets with honey comb. It looks like there will be about 50 pounds of honey. I think I swept the queen, or she escaped. I found absolutely no brood whatsoever. Why??? Is it in another part of the wall. I searched long and hard. I found no other spots. The bees acted like there was nothing more to defend. I am flummoxed. Very healthy appearing hive.

asprince · May 28, 2010, 10:46:40 PM

There could be additional hive with the brood, but my guess is they recently swarmed. All the old brood will have hatched before the new queen starts to lay.

Steve

JP · May 28, 2010, 10:49:36 PM

Quote from: asprince on May 28, 2010, 10:46:40 PM
There could be additional hive with the brood, but my guess is they recently swarmed. All the old brood will have hatched before the new queen starts to lay.

Steve

I agree they swarmed prior to the cut out.

...JP

iddee · May 28, 2010, 11:04:45 PM

If all the comb was honey, or new empty comb, there is more hive. If there is a lot of old, empty comb in the center area of the hive, they swarmed recently.

Kathyp · May 28, 2010, 11:37:41 PM

one of my first was like that. guy fessed up after that they'd sprayed through the hole a couple of times. lots of bees. no queen. no brood. lots of honey that got tossed. waste of time. if i'd been more experienced i'd have known when i opened it. the comb right behind the entrance was abandoned and black.

joker1656 · May 29, 2010, 08:12:27 AM

There was capped/uncapped honey, almost front to back. Old comb in the middle, but had some honey and alot of nectar/uncapped honey. Probably about 3 rows of new white comb at the end farthest from the entrance.

I will be going back there today to take a more thorough look. The only place it appears that they could have the rest of the hive is in the ceiling of the lower apartment. I hope you all are right, and they swarmed recently.

Always something new and unexpected. :-D

On the plus side, though.....much honey.

greenbtree · May 29, 2010, 02:37:16 PM

My first (and only) cutout was like that. A neighbor said a few days before the house was "covered with bees". Figured they swarmed, which was good since the homeowner had them sprayed the day before we got there.

JC

joker1656 · May 29, 2010, 03:48:34 PM

Well, I looked pretty thoroughly, as thoroughly as I could without cutting a hole in the ceiling. I did not find any other evidence. The stragglers seem to be pretty disoriented.

I used a cheap infrared thermometer to check the ceiling. I had a variance of +/- 1 to 1.5 degrees. Other cutouts have had more dramatic variance, and it was clear that there was a hive behind the drywall.

Wouldn't there be more of a temp change than 70.6 degrees to 72 degrees? Also, it was not a distinct change, like I have seen other times. Does it sound like I am good?

joker1656 · May 29, 2010, 03:50:52 PM

Also, I would be less concerned, but this building has lots of areas for the bees to re-hive themselves, if I missed the queen. There are many gaps and holes in the soffit, etc. The good thing is, I was not responsible for repairs. :-D

JP · May 29, 2010, 05:41:20 PM

Your differentials could be due to construction variances or even shade from the sun.

This is where a borescope comes in handy.

I like a 3 degree differential but a 1.5 differential may be worth investigating. You need to explore the possibilities. You don't want to leave a colony behind, after all you were (or were you?) hired to remove them, right?

...JP

joker1656 · May 30, 2010, 01:44:42 AM

Yes, I was hired to remove them. I do not have a boroscope at this time, so my proposition to them will be to cut a small hole in the ceiling. I definitely do not want to leave a job half done. Thanks for your input. I appreciate it. A boroscope is next on the tool puchase list.

iddee · May 30, 2010, 08:17:38 AM

Once again.... Patience...Patience....Patience....

Rather than do more damage to the structure, just wait a day or two. They will tell you shortly where and how many they are.

joker1656 · May 30, 2010, 08:31:34 AM

There you are again, Iddee....voicing common sense. LOL Okay, now what should I be looking at primarily? I have an idea, but the few other cutouts I have done were much more cut and dried.

There are so many voids in this structure that I am afraid that they will get started again somewhere else (or in the ceiling, if they truly were not there already) if we don't move quickly. Sorry for the rush. :-D

I did not see pollen going in anywhere. The one spot I saw bees hanging, had no way into the interior. There were less than a few hundred hanging around. Possibly as few as a hundred. I will run up this eve and just vac the bees that are there. Hopefully that will show where I stand.

iddee · May 30, 2010, 08:49:36 AM

Post again this evening after picking up the stragglers.

joker1656 · May 30, 2010, 04:40:21 PM

Here is the one picture (well one of two, but they are virtually the same) that I took. I had to open much more than this, but it was very pretty opening up and seeing all of this comb. It turned out, like stated above, to be all honey comb. http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/5742/aptbeesii.jpg

Have not swept up anymore, Iddee and JP. I did go over there this afternoon. Very few bees, I am guessing less than 50-100. No one is bringing pollen, and they seem to fly up to the huge opening and just mill around. I do not see where they could be getting inside, if they are.

I am still not satisfied, so I will be going back this eve.