Hive Size to Winter

[greenbtree]

Rule of thumb is 60 lbs of honey for bees to successfully overwinter.  What about the size of the hive itself?  I assume there is some minimum amount of bees needed to get through the winter.  Here in the Midwest (Iowa) what would that be?  Do you go by frames of bees?

I have a number of hives that are currently small from collecting swarms that I don't want to lose.  I don't know how big they will get before winter.  I have seen references to moving into nucs?  Could you put two small hives into one deep with a divider board between them (maybe with entrances on opposite sides) so they can share some heat?

If they don't have the honey stores built up, do you feed sugar syrup?  Would it be a good idea to put up a burlap wind break on three sides of the hive?

I am trying to think of these questions in advance instead of being in a panic at the last minute.

JC

[fermentedhiker]

overwintering small colonies can certainly be done.  I try to size the hive cavity to be a suitable match to the cluster size.  Michael Palmer(from Vermont) does exactly what you mentioned buy turning a 10 frame deep with a divider into two overwintering NUCS with separate entrances with good success from what I understand.  If they outgrow the NUC then he adds a NUC body like it's a super above to give them room to expand.

[joker1656]

I too was wondering about this.  Thanks for starting the thread. 

[Kathyp]

i think it depends on the bees.  i have had very small colonies over-winter fine and very large ones not make it.  i have one hive that goes down to a very small size, but booms early in the spring and does fine.  this is the 3rd year going into the 4th winter for this hive and they have done the same every year.  other hives have crashed with larger numbers and more stores.

[FRAMEshift]

i think it depends on the bees.  i have had very small colonies over-winter fine and very large ones not make it.  i have one hive that goes down to a very small size, but booms early in the spring and does fine.  this is the 3rd year going into the 4th winter for this hive and they have done the same every year.  other hives have crashed with larger numbers and more stores.

So you have a 3 1/2 year old queen or is this a daughter?  Sounds like you have some good genes there.

I guess the more bees that overwinter, the more stores are needed to keep them going.  So a small cluster may have a better chance as long as it's big enough to keep itself warm.  Bees have to be able to move in and out of the cluster so they don't get too cold.  That must put some lower limit on survivable cluster size.   Kathy, just how small does this colony of yours get?

[danno]

a couple of years ago I overwintered 2 small colonies in 2 story 5 frome nuc's.  I did move these into my barn for the winter.  There are plenty of cracks and knot hole in this 100 year old barn but it did break the wind and kept the snow of them.  except for them cr@pping on everything in there they did well

[Michael Bush]

All of those "rules of thumb" assume an average Italian cluster going into winter.  Often it is NOT an average sized cluster.  Sometimes it's large and sometimes it's small and sometimes it's average...

[greenbtree]

So do you try to match the size of the cluster to the hive body?  Are there ANY guidelines?  Three frames or less in a nuc or something?  If not over two frames just forget it?  I figure a small cluster wouldn't need 60 lbs of honey, is there any kind of ratio here?  A frame of honey to every frame of bees or something similar?

JC

[Kathyp]

So you have a 3 1/2 year old queen or is this a daughter?  Sounds like you have some good genes there.

feral swarm out of a tree.  picked it up several years ago.  i know that the queen that's in there is not the one i got with the swarm.  it's a funny hive.  the winter with a pretty small cluster and explode early in spring.  they are some of the first out in the morning and last in at night.  they also almost always have queen cells in there.  when i need a queen, i'm pretty certain i can find the makings in that hive.

doing my own queen here can be disappointing.  those swallows are just as likely to get them as the queens are to make it back to the hive. 

[FRAMEshift]

 they also almost always have queen cells in there.  when i need a queen, i'm pretty certain i can find the makings in that hive.

So have these characteristics (small cluster, early spring start, long daily forage) been picked up by the hives you have requeened from those queen cells?

[Finski]

.
It is middsummer now and even small hives have time to grow to normal size.
I would say that minimum swarm is one which occupye one langstroth box. If they are smaller it is better to join them.

The swarm needs a space which it can occupye. Other space is better to cut restricht away.
When it is summer, don't feed them. It just fills valuable brood cells.

Then it takes 4 weeks time that the colony start to crow and then it fills the hive with brood.

In south Finland latitude 60 I use 20 kg sugar on average to my yard and I leave about 5 kg honey per hive.

We may talk about minimum colony which survive over winter, but it meets difficulties in spring to build up.
5 frame colony is very slow to build up. It is toy or valuable  the spare queen.

I may over winter 2-frame nuc with terrarium  heater but what do I do with it in spring? It is a mere nuisance.
.