Introducing a queen in to a nuc - proper procedure?

OzBuzz · August 07, 2010, 07:55:58 PM

Hey everybody, before I get flames-yes I have searched although maybe using the wrong terms...

Today is the day! Some of you may have followed my log hive saga. I got a nuc box yesterday... Today I take some frames of brood and workers from my existing hive and put them in the nuc. I'll catch the queen and put her in the plastic mailing cage I was given along with a few workers-I even made my own queen candy haha. What is the proper procedure for introduction though? Should I let the nuc sit for a few hours before putting the cage in? How should I place the cage in the hive? Should I give everything a light misting of sugar syrup so the bees from my existing hive accept the 100 or coworkers from the log hive?

Thanks for your advice

HomeBru · August 07, 2010, 08:05:17 PM

I'd go with low lighting, some light jazz, maybe a good chablis... You know how blind dates can be. :-D

I'm a newb, but you may be asking for trouble adding bees from two different colonies into the same nuc. I'd put the log bees in with frames of brood, eggs, honey, and the new queen. Give them a few days to settle in and then do a paper combine with some additional frames and some workers from your strong hive if you're worried about them not having enough of a workforce.

J-

AliciaH · August 07, 2010, 11:02:35 PM

The last time I ordered bees, the directions were that the bees getting the new queen needed to be queenless ahead of time for a minimum of 24 hours. My mentor, on the other hand, recommends 3-4 days. You're on a time crunch, though, and it will take them longer than one day to eat her out, so could you wait the 24 hours and then put the cage in?

For what it's worth, I've had good luck introducing two groups of bees IF the new bees are primarily nurse bees and they are on frames of brood. It's almost like an understanding that care of the babies come first and there has been little to no bickering. If the bees are older and more territorial, I'd wait (introduction of new queen is a biggee by itself) and go with the paper combine mentioned above.

Very exciting! Good luck!

OzBuzz · August 07, 2010, 11:40:46 PM

Ok, thanks guys... So they need a period of quenlessness. Should I put the frames in the nuc, bring it home, and let them fly straight away or leave them closed in overnight? Were going in to a period of poor weather too so I have to time my introduction of the queen in the cage carefully. I was going to hang the cage between two frames of brood with candy facing upward. I can't hang it flat though as I don't think there will be the space between the frames-could this be a problem?

AliciaH · August 07, 2010, 11:55:53 PM

If you hang the cage between, and at the top, of the frames, the candy should be facing down for easier access by more bees. The screened part where the bees can get to the queen and really get to know her should be facing down the length of the frames. Since the cages are usually a bit wider this direction it sometimes takes up a bit more room depending on how much wax is on the frames, but you want her to be as exposed as possible.

OzBuzz · August 08, 2010, 01:15:58 AM

So does that mean that I should potentially even embed the cage in the comb? The screens are on the upper and lower surface of the cage. So theoretically I should maintain it in that orientation?

OzBuzz · August 08, 2010, 02:31:24 AM

I now have a gorgeous queen in a cage with four nurse bees (taken from comb that had brood and they were fuzzier than the others-one looked like it had only recently hatched) I also have a nuc with two undrawn frames, one full of honey and two full of brood (mostly capped sadly) and all three frames are covered in bees. Now to wait till I can put the queen cage in... I have to do it later today-the weather for the rest of this week is average at best. Should I leave the bees locked in overnight and open tomorrow for an orientation flight?

bee-nuts · August 08, 2010, 02:52:55 AM

I have had excellent success with only 4 to 6 hours of quenn-less-ness for three to four frames of bees. I however take brood above a queen excluder to get as many young nurse bees as possible or find the queen and put here in her own nuc then take brood frames and give em a bit of a shake to get feild bees off. Smaller colonies with nurse bees accept queens best. Full size colonies are harder to requeen from what I have read and you are supposed to have better luck making a small nuc first then once you have that accomplished pinch the old queen or whatever your plan is, leave queenless for a day or two then do a paper combine with the nuc.

I just made six nucs two weekends ago which I left queenless for about 6 hours. Five worked for sure, did not locate the queen in sixth but there were young larva so she much have been accepted, I hope I just missed her and she was not dead.

OzBuzz · August 08, 2010, 03:32:07 AM

Should I shake the frames at the entrance to get some field bees off? Will they fly back to the old hive even thoughts it about 2mi away? Also, how do you orient the queen cage? Should I take one of the undrawn frames out so I can have the screens facing the top and bottom and adequately squeeze it between a top bar? I'm going to aim for the 4-6 hrs quenlessness-just means I'll be putting her in after dark

OzBuzz · August 08, 2010, 10:25:15 AM

So it's all together now - the Queen is in the nucleus and hopefully over the next few days they will eat her out and she will start a whole new hive! I'll have a look tomorrow and see how she's going with being eaten out - if they're not making any headway i might put a small hole through the candy to give them a head start. It's been pretty cold here and i don't want the candy solidifying because she will never eat their way out of that...

iddee · August 08, 2010, 10:44:35 AM

Checking tomorrow is a BAD idea. Leave them for 4 to 7 days without disturbing. An interruption in the next few days can cause them to attack the new queen.

OzBuzz · August 08, 2010, 11:05:28 AM

Should I have put a hole in the candy?

iddee · August 08, 2010, 11:28:39 AM

NO!

FRAMEshift · August 08, 2010, 01:10:50 PM

Quote from: AliciaH on August 07, 2010, 11:55:53 PM
If you hang the cage between, and at the top, of the frames, the candy should be facing down for easier access by more bees.

I have heard that the candy should not be down because if some of the attendants die they will fall down and block the exit. Don't know if that's true.

iddee · August 08, 2010, 01:16:30 PM

I put candy up.I don't want an early release.

AliciaH · August 08, 2010, 06:45:36 PM

FRAMEshift - thanks for the tip! I've never had that happen, but since Murphy is one of my best buds, it would be nice to avoid that "first time" thing!

OzBuzz · August 08, 2010, 10:47:18 PM

Thnks Guys for all of your help and advice.. please keep your fingers crossed for me :-D hopefully she will be released without a hitch and then i'll have hive #2 :-D