New Beekeeper question

Doc Pat · August 09, 2010, 10:15:17 PM

Hello again, everyone

We finally got ourselves moved to the country, and I have two hives which I installed on May 1. One is going gangbusters, and the other is just piddling along...I requeened the weak hive about a ten days ago, and started treating with Fumagillin B, in hopes of getting that colony strong enough to over-winter.

My question is about the strong hive...I put a honey super and queen excluder on just over a week ago. Now, I realize that I missed the peak nectar flow, and don't really expect to see much honey, but my question is this: I see a lot of bees up in the super (above the queen excluder) but they haven't drawn any of the comb (wax foundation). Does this mean that the queen excluder is acting as a honey excluder? If it were, would I see so many bees up in the super (please understand...I don't mean LOTS of bees, but probably 25 - 50 per side of each frame).

Hope all of you are doing well, and thanks for all the information and tips over the last couple of years that have made getting into beekeeping so easy and so much fun!

Pat

Kathyp · August 09, 2010, 10:29:07 PM

if the frames are not drawn out and you put on an excluder, you may never get them drawn out. you have 3 choices. leave it as is and see what happens or take it off until they draw it out (getting late for that) or take it off and leave it off.

many of us have quite using excluders unless we plan on doing comb honey. most of the time the queen won't lay up there anyway especially if there is a band of honey already over the brood. the excluders tend to slow things down and they will bring things to a halt if the supers are not drawn out. it's a personal choice thing.

oh...one more choice. leave the excluder on and give an upper entrance BUT make sure it is pretty small or you will invite robbing.

about the medicating of the bees...do you know you have a problem, or are you just shotgunning them? feeding is a really good idea if they need it, but medicating on schedule is something most have quit doing. some think it does more harm than good. again....a judgment call.

OzBuzz · August 09, 2010, 10:33:43 PM

G'day Pat, welcome to the addiction! i'm a first year Beekeeper this season too... I'm in Australia so i'm coming in to my second season.

I'm just going off what i know so far - normally bees will draw comb when they need it. You mentioned that you missed the main flow - the likelihood is that they have some room in the bottom deep and are filling that with stores etc for your winter.

Are you likely to have another flow before your season ends? If so i'd probably leave the super on - the bees know best as to when they need it and will start working it accordingly. For now they're just checking it out... my only worry would be if they started chewing away at your foundation to use it in other places but even if they do that they will rebuild it later.

When it starts to get colder there i'd be checking again to see what they have done. If your brood is hatching and they're backfilling in preparation for winter i'd probably consider taking that deep off and overwintering them in a single deep brood chamber. It does't sound like your population is that massive that they will be to crowded in one deep.

The Queen Excluder won't be what's stopping the bees from working the foundation - i would probably consider removing it though until it's drawn or consider doing away with it all together. This late in your season you won't likely get the Queen moving up in to your second deep to lay brood...

Doc Pat · August 09, 2010, 10:48:28 PM

Thank you both -- and G'day yourownself.

Kathyp, I started treating because local beekeepers with similarly weak hives have recommended it -- they seem to feel that just about every weak hive can be traced to Nosema -- probably partly right, but in the case of a package installed almost exactly three months ago, I suspect it could have been just a poor queen, or it could have been disease, or something else entirely (although my mite count is low -- average drop 3 - 5/day on July 1 and same on August 1.) So, yeah, I'm pretty much shotgunning it.

The "good" hive has one 8-frame deep filled with eggs, larve, brood and some honey, and a second deep filled with about 30% offspring in various stages and the rest is full of honey, all the way out to the outermost frames.

Kathyp · August 09, 2010, 10:51:28 PM

how many frames of honey in the weak hive?

with a new queen, it may take off quickly but if they have filled all space with honey because the old queen wasn't doing her thing, you need to be sure there is plenty of brood space for the new....espcially if you are feeding.

Doc Pat · August 09, 2010, 11:04:06 PM

Darned near NO honey -- frames 1 & 2 nothing. Frame3 - maybe 30% honey and some capped brood - same on 4, 5 and 6. Very little going on on frames 7 & 8. These girls have been fed with 2:1 with Honey Bee Healthy since day 1.

What would you do?

Sparky · August 09, 2010, 11:22:57 PM

If your frames 1 and 2 are drawn out It would be a good idea to exchange them with frames 3 and 6 so the queen has empty frames inside of the food stores to lay in.

Doc Pat · August 09, 2010, 11:30:25 PM

They're minimally drawn. Would you do it right now, with the new queen? (By the way, there's also a second deep, which has nothing going on, which I know I shoud remove until the new queen proves herself -- or maybe not???)

I'm sooooo lost

OzBuzz · August 09, 2010, 11:37:33 PM

Quote from: Doc Pat on August 09, 2010, 11:30:25 PM
They're minimally drawn. Would you do it right now, with the new queen? (By the way, there's also a second deep, which has nothing going on, which I know I shoud remove until the new queen proves herself -- or maybe not???)

I'm sooooo lost

I would say remove the second deep now - bees don't like working with too much space.

We'll give you as much guidance as we can - always remember though that Beekeepers do things that work for them - some rules are hard and fast - some are flexible and will be modified to suit a situation. The fun part is sorting through all of the advice and doing what works best for you and your hives - you will come to know them better than anybody else. Sometimes it's trial and error - bees are fairly forgiving...

Kathyp · August 09, 2010, 11:55:35 PM

if one deep is empty i agree with Oz. pull it. even if the queen lays great they probably won't need two to winter. also consider knocking off the HBH. there was as post on here not long ago about some research that suggests essential oils may mess with the gut. maybe someone remembers it or you can search and find it.

you aren't lost. you know things are not as you want them and you are asking the right questions. sometimes the bees don't go by the book.