Attempt at first cutout failed?!

harvey · August 10, 2010, 08:44:27 PM

Well I took the day off work to attempt a cutout from a tree that blew down in the woods. It was a real old tree on the edge of swamp. No beekeepers for at least several miles. I went back and saw the tree it was broke off four feet in the air and what was left was only half the stump. It has been this way for almost a week. I took everything I could think of cept a be vac cause I don't have one. The stump was literaly covered in bees! I mean solid bees from the ground to the top of the stump on all the inside walls. I only found a little comb with larva, most of the comb was very hard, dark and very hard, most all of it was destroyed when the tree went down. I found enough pieces to fill ten frames but not very well. the comb was all layered and one piece was part of another and so on. I dug through as much as I could but did not see a queen. Interesting right in the middle of one piece of comb I found a wood borer (bumble bee type critter). I tried scooping as many bees as I could off of the stump with my hands and dropping them into the hive box. That didn't work and when I did that they finaly had had enough and took to the air. It was very thick with bees. Not knowing what else to do I set two deeps right next to the open side of the stump with a bottom board and cover? The top deep is the one I had put the comb in. Is there any posibility that they will inhabit the deeps? I didn't even find any capped honey to salvage. everything in the stump was uncapped. Not sure if there is anything else I can do. This stump is about 3/4 mile off the road.

AllenF · August 10, 2010, 08:57:18 PM

I think leaving the box there was right. When you show up to get it, you could bring some bee quick to spray the stump to run out the rest. Too bad you could not cage the queen.

leechmann · August 10, 2010, 09:09:07 PM

Harvey, I am not an expert, but I have captured 8 swarms this season. I would suggest using some lemon grass oil in the hive box. I would also put some honey in there to feed the bees. Lastly, I would get my hands on a bee vac and a generator, and suck those bees up if the other method fails.

Kathyp · August 10, 2010, 09:28:18 PM

the bee quick is a good idea and the frame of honey IF you don't think it will attract other critters.

they may very well find your box a good place to go since their home is destroyed.

when i use bee quick or honey robber i put it on cotton balls and stuff it down in the spaces. it seems to last longer that way.

mswartfager · August 10, 2010, 09:32:40 PM

Sounds like a heck of an effort, but I think the odds are against you. Sometimes things just don't work out. I've done three cutouts and two worked out fine, but one failed. There will be another and I'll try again.

skflyfish · August 10, 2010, 09:38:45 PM

It looks like a basswood tree and I think I see others in the photos. I love basswood honey.

Good luck with this. I have a feeling it ain't over yet.

I got a call yesterday from a logger about an hour north who dropped a bee tree in a tract he is working. Too far away and I am too busy anyway, but it would have been a fun try.

Jay

harvey · August 10, 2010, 09:42:22 PM

Naw it aint over yet just not sure where to go from here. If I can get the bees in the hive once home I can give them a frame of eggs and brood to maybe see if they will make a queen. These are definately survivor bees, they have been in that tree a long long time.

Livefreeordie · August 10, 2010, 10:35:33 PM

Is there a possibility that there is fresher comb and honey maybe further up inside the part that fell? Possibly brood and the queen as well?

harvey · August 10, 2010, 10:45:15 PM

There was originally comb probably seven feet up the tree. All the comb above the stump had been destroyed and there were no bees there. The only place the bees were congragating was on the stump. all over it but just on the stump?

Livefreeordie · August 11, 2010, 12:00:26 AM

Quote from: harvey on August 10, 2010, 10:45:15 PM
There was originally comb probably seven feet up the tree. All the comb above the stump had been destroyed and there were no bees there. The only place the bees were congragating was on the stump. all over it but just on the stump?

Maybe my thinking is flawed, as I know nothing yet. But from reading that bees like to work up, and the dark hard comb on the bottom looks very old, I thought maybe there was some fresher stuff up further. I would go up the trunk 15' or so, and start cutting back toward the bottom, but again, I may be thinking wrong. But if there is some comb that survived up there, maybe the queen is there? Nothing to lose checking right? I have seen hollows in trunks go way up from cutting firewood, seems it would be a possibility that some further up where the cavity wasn't so wide could have survived the fall. Just thinking out loud.

Kathyp · August 11, 2010, 12:37:59 AM

they work from the top down. the old stuff is probably either old brood comb, comb that broke lose at some point, or stuff they had abandoned. you'll never set up a hive and have the bees start building from floor to ceiling :-D

harvey i'd guess that if she's still alive, she's in/on the stump. i think i'd treat them as a swarm and if you can't vacuum them off, try to drive them out. i think you have a good chance that they'd go to your hive.
if they have no stores, you might try putting on a jar of syrup laced with lemongrass oil and see if they'll go into the hive for that.

maybe the masters, iddee and jp and others, have a better idea?

hardwood · August 11, 2010, 12:40:20 AM

Harvey, trust your instincts...the queen is where the bees are! Take away as many as you can. Scoop 'em with a cup, cup them with your hand, bee vac them...just get the population down to where you can see what you're doing and find queenie!

Start by taking the bees from the periphery where you can sit a bit and look to make sure the queen is not there. Slowly work your way towards the middle of the cluster...again checking all the while for the queen. Eventually she will pop out for you.

Scott

Grandpa Jim · August 11, 2010, 01:36:51 AM

Is there anyway you could place the hive body and lid, without the bottom, on top of the stump? Maybe bait it with a frame of open brood, drawn comb and maybe some honey. Give them a a day or so to see if they will move up into the hive. I would think that would be more natural for them than moving down off the old comb and into your hive. Maybe you could also give them a push up toward the box with some smoke.
Jim

Livefreeordie · August 11, 2010, 09:28:53 AM

Quote from: kathyp on August 11, 2010, 12:37:59 AM
they work from the top down. the old stuff is probably either old brood comb, comb that broke lose at some point, or stuff they had abandoned. you'll never set up a hive and have the bees start building from floor to ceiling :-D

Ok, I should have known that, I guess thinking like a human and using a tree instead of a hive, I was thinking as the hive grew, they would be forced to work up into the narrower hollow, because boxes wouldn't be added to the bottom of a tree trunk :-\. Just proves that it is going to take a long time to get the hang of this. :(