Will bees reuse the wax cappings?

[Dr. B in Wisconsin]

Hello
I have some wax cappings from my last honey harvest, I was thinking of putting the cappings inside the top box next to the sugar water jar. My question is will the bees reuse the wax to cap uncapped honey? It is getting late here in Wisconsin and I noticed that there is quite a bit of honey in one box that is not capped that I plan on leaving for them. Also does it matter if honey in the hive is uncapped for winter use.

Thanks for any replies
Brian

[fish_stix]

No, they do not reuse the wax. No, does not matter that the honey is uncapped. The honey can be cured and not capped until the cell is filled completely. They'll eat all of it you can leave for them if the cluster gets up to the level of the uncapped honey.  :-D

[FRAMEshift]

No, they do not reuse the wax.

I have not witnessed bees reusing wax but when I asked this same question, a number of posters reported they have seen wax being reused.  So I guess it does happen, even if not often or in large quantities.  It wouldn't hurt to put cappings beside the sugar water as a test.  Don't place the wax where the bees can't reach it because that will just encourage wax moths.

[AllenF]

I have seen bees fly off with pieces of wax from the cappings when they are cleaning them up after extraction, but it is not all that much and they were still wet with honey.   This time of the year, they would not need the wax and they would not take enough even in the summer to make it worth while.  I would just leave it in the freezer until you have enough to use for yourself.

[Kathyp]

i think what people see is the bees ripping the stuff up to get any last bit of honey.  the cappings are nice for wax.  usually pretty clean and a light color.  there's no harm in putting them out for cleaning, but i would not put them near the hive.  put them away from the hive on a cookie sheet or something and let them have at it.  or...freeze them until you have collected enough wax to melt it all down.

[L Daxon]

Yah.  I treasure my wax harvest almost as much as my honey.  I get a lot of wax since I crush and strain my harvest -- not big enough to warrant an extractor.  Over time you will have people ask to buy the wax off you -- not as much as the honey -- but there are a lot of people out there that use bees' wax and when they learn you have hives, they will beat a path to your door.

[Michael Bush]

If the estimates of how much work it takes to make wax were true, they probably would... but they don't.

[BjornBee]

If the question was in regards to wax cappings such as when your done harvesting honey and would they take the wax if you placed it out in the yard on a pan....then no. I have never seen that.

If the question has to do with reuse of wax from within the hive...absolutely. They will chew and use extra burr comb and areas not needed at this time to cap fall honey.

I have an observation hive I pulled out from a market two weeks ago. It was empty of stores. After feeding sugar syrup for the past two weeks, they have one frame almost completely capped. No new wax. All capped with dark older wax from the hive. You can actually see where it is now missing from the edges.

I guess I must add a disclaimer for anyone considering buying honey from me or even bees next year. These observation hives are NOT used for honey production or nuc production. So for those who want to go on a letter writing campaign, denigrate "chemical use" from such practices, or go to my website and read such things as "Honey from non-chemical hives" then make a big deal while casting finger pointing glances my way as they look up from writing their next book......Yes, I said I fed these observation hives with nasty chemicals called sugar. There...are we clear about that..... :-D

[tecumseh]

capping within the hive from brood or honey is reused (I think?? Winston states this directly).  placing capping in some container will not get them reused in the fashion you seem to think.

I notice at this time of year the bees are raking in bit of wax from here ant there although I suspect a good portion of this is for producing propolis in large quantities.

[fish_stix]

Any of you ever observe all that chewed up wax on the bottom board when the bees are eating their honey stores? I guess they must be stockpiling it for later reuse, Huh?

[BjornBee]

Any of you ever observe all that chewed up wax on the bottom board when the bees are eating their honey stores? I guess they must be stockpiling it for later reuse, Huh?

Not really sure your comment, your question, or your premise?

Are you suggesting (and by figuring your first post also) that bees do not reuse wax?

I think when bees are eating honey (Fall, winter, or during dearths) bees are in a "frugal" mode of operation. So any dropped or cast off bits from opening up honeycomb, is probably not worth saving, or not worth the energy or resources to worry at those times of the season. When better times are ahead, and the flow dictates, bees make new wax. In the meantime, they keep a clean house and discard any fallen wax bits out of the hive.

Anybody can easily see that the cells being capped at this time is not from new flakes of wax being produced by bees. It usually is capped with very dark older comb taken from unused areas of the hive.

On a side note, I also think that bees have a hard time dealing with "bits" of fallen wax. They can not grasp it,  manipulate and "scrape" off the smaller pieces they need to rework. But when it is attached to frames laying about or boxes taken off and stacked, you can actually see bees scraping off propolis and wax. I have seen bees ignore anything they can not scrape. Like cappings, etc. But I have seen bees many times scrape wax and propolis off stacked boxes.

Another interesting tidbit....you can usually figure out which honey frames were capped with reused "fall" wax, the following year if you take off any of this honey. When you use a knife to uncap the comb, the wax does not melt off like newer first time wax. It kind of "crunches" and kind of breaks off rather than the smooth melting you usually see.

[fish_stix]

OK! Never seen them reuse wax. Please explain this; when the bees are drawing new comb, they drop a lot of the perfect, nice white flakes down to the bottom board and a lot gets stuck to frames and comb. If they were to reuse wax it seems this would be the perfect stuff to use since it's brand new, but, my bees don't reuse it. Notice I qualified the statement with "my bees." Your bees may be more advanced in the manual arts than mine!  :-D

[Culley]

My bees drop a lot of wax flakes on the bottom too.
I have noticed at times when I put the odd frame with foundation in the foundation has been taken bit by bit from the frame. I thought the bees were reusing it, but in retrospect I suppose they might've been discarding it.

Everything I've read suggests that bees gather propolis from trees, and sometimes when I put out an inner cover to air out before cleaning, bees will come and land all over the propolis all day. Maybe they are reusing it? Also one hive in particular has air vents in the lid with no mesh, and the bees very frequently plug the vents with a thin layer of propolis, and then unplug them again.

[BjornBee]

Here is what happens when the bees stop making wax (dearth or cold temps) and they still need to cap comb, etc.

[tecumseh]

fish stix writes:
'OK! Never seen them reuse wax.'

tecumseh:
I can't say I have directly seen them reuse wax either although folks that do have the time to wait and watch tell me they do.  if the wax on your bottom board is not reused... what happens to it?  do they toss it outside?

with a robust population a clean bottom board is the FIRST positive sign of hygienic behavior.

[fish_stix]

Tecumseh; I use all screened bottom boards and a lot of the wax particles fall through, but most is carried out the front over a period of time. During our citrus flow we use all new foundation to get drawn combs and we end up with a lot of nice pretty white flakes in the hive and on the ground. Also, if you insert a white board under the hive for a mite check that board will have thousands of small wax particles on it. I've personnally never seen evidence of reusing wax and I don't think any studies have identified a capability to move wax around and reuse it. However, I'm open to the possibility, just hardheaded about proof!  :-D

[tillie]

what's really interesting  is to stand outside the hive in the fall when the bees are chewing wax foundation to use it somewhere else in the hive.  You can hear the crunch, crunch, crunch of their little mandibles! 

and Winston does say that the emerging bee hangs the chewed off wax cap from the brood chamber on the side of the cell to be reused.

When I see large amounts of wax "crumbs" on the screened bottom board, I see that as a sign that the hive has been robbed and the robbers cast the torn off cappings onto the bottom of the hive.

Linda T in Atlanta

[BjornBee]

tillie,
Nice try.
But I suspect that unless you go over and physically wrap both hands around some beekeepers neck and force them to see with their own eyes, they will not believe that bees reuse wax. And it just seems that having some wax pieces on the bottom board just throws so much doubt and confusion into the mix, that anything else said is just cast aside.

I wonder how many beekeepers actually have seen a worker lick up crap from a queens backside? Ewwww....like that really happens.  :shock: And hey, just because YOU never seen a queen take a cleansing flight does not mean it does not happen. Like one bee actually collects the poop of another. You don't think that really happens do you? Please tell me another... :roll:

Best bee teacher in the world.....and that would be an observation hive, clearly shows that bees DO reuse wax. But I guess after wrapping my hands around someones neck, I'll be forced to buy them an observation hive next....  :-D Cause then it will be a "our bees, your bees" thing.

Hey fish...you own an observation hive by chance?

[Kathyp]

chewing up foundation/comb to move wax might not be the same thing as them reusing cappings, etc.?  i realize that just because you don't see a thing does not mean it's not happening, but....while i have seen them shuffle stuff in the hive (observation hive) i have never seen them pick up wax and reuse it.  it's not like i have not left the stuff around either from cutouts, clean outs, or cappings.

[Pink Cow]

Could it be that some will, and some won't? On several occasions I've seen bees recovering wax from bits of comb I've left lying around, or from the insides of boxes I've left out. If they are not reusing it, I can't imagine why they'd waste the energy to collect it.