FEEDING IN THE NORTH EAST

[GLOCK]

Well winter is coming fast.
I took a honey super off my hive about 3 weeks ago. The honey was around 2/3ds capped so i put them in a freezer figuring I'd feed them back to the hive
but in 3 weeks the bee's seem to have filled the two brood box's .
I had put on a top feeder when i took the honey .I should have let the bee's cap all the the honey but i was worried they would not have the stores to make this northeast winter {PA.}so now the bee's are building comb between the top brood box and the feeder. I took that comb and honey from between the brood box and the feeder and been using it for tea.Should i still bee feeding them like i said the brood box's are full.
Also what should i be doing to have them ready for winter?
I'm going to put black tar paper around the hive plus put a hole above the top brood box Handel .
Entrance reducer should i put one on? I have a screen bottom.
When should i put the Styrofoam{1/2 in}under the outer cover?{top}
It's a very strong hive package bee.s this hive did well.
I see no mites all looks well.
Is there any thing I'm forgeting? I have a small crack between the two brood box's for ventilation should i close it up.
Am i forgetting any thing.
THANK YOU.
P.S. do you think i can eat the honey in the freezer will the honey in the brood boxs be all they need?

[AllenF]

2 deeps full?  I think your bees are going to do just fine this winter.   I think your game plan for winter is coming out good so far.  Sounds like you are fine doing everything you have listed.   I would not feed them unless they get light this winter.   I leave my screen bottoms open, but I am south of you, way south of you.

[bassman1977]

Also what should i be doing to have them ready for winter?
I'm going to put black tar paper around the hive plus put a hole above the top brood box Handel .

Don't.  It's a waste of time, trouble and money.  The tar paper doesn't do all that much to help.  They are fine without it.  Just get some shims and put them under the inner cover and above the top box, that'll help keep it nice and dry in there.

Entrance reducer should i put one on? I have a screen bottom.

You should have the entrance reducer on yesterday.  Mice will start going in and out in the evenings by now.  Close the screen bottom.  Trust me on this one.  I lost a bunch of hives one year keeping them open.

When should i put the Styrofoam{1/2 in}under the outer cover?{top}

Why do you need to at all?  Keep it out.  It's not needed.

It's a very strong hive package bee.s this hive did well.
I see no mites all looks well.

Is there any thing I'm forgeting? I have a small crack between the two brood box's for ventilation should i close it up.

Yes.  The upper one I mentioned above is all you need.  The outer cover will keep direct winds from blowing in.

Am i forgetting any thing.
THANK YOU.

P.S. do you think i can eat the honey in the freezer will the honey in the brood boxs be all they need?

Sounds like you are set for food.  Enjoy!

What I do for wintering:

1.  Late September - entrance reducers on, check stores, start feeding if necessary (I have only fed once year in 5 years)
2.  1st week of October - shims under inner covers, close up SBBs, heavy object on top of outer cover.  Wave good bye until next year (if you have an outyard).

There is no need for putting blankets and all that stuff around a hive.  They do just fine without it.

[bassman1977]

By the way, I should mention, I found it a bad idea to winter a hive with more than what is equivalent to 2 deeps, no matter how large your colony is.  I had HUGE colonies last year that I wintered in 4 mediums (3 ~ 2 deeps).  They all died.  The only hive that I had in 3 mediums survived.  They were stuffed with honey but froze to death.

[woodchopper]

By the way, I should mention, I found it a bad idea to winter a hive with more than what is equivalent to 2 deeps, no matter how large your colony is.  I had HUGE colonies last year that I wintered in 4 mediums (3 ~ 2 deeps).  They all died.  The only hive that I had in 3 mediums survived.  They were stuffed with honey but froze to death.

Eight of our Ten medium hives survived with four mediums last winter. We DID lose four of the eight to starvation in late spring when we left on vacation. Daytime temps were in the upper 40's with the nighttime temps slightly over freezing. They were all doing fine and when we returned from vacation they were dead with their heads facing into the cells. It was disappointing to overwinter them and then lose them because of a stupid mistake. We'll overwinter ten hives this year with four mediums but will pay more attention to the fondant and honey stores.

[backyard warrior]

From what i have read from the hive and the honey bee book that bees have done much better wintered in 3 deeps instead of two deeps. So i dont know why some of us are saying that two is better than three but im going to go with they guys that wrote the book and have proven that this is the case more bees, more honey, larger cluster for winter equalls spring survival and build up.

[Kathyp]

you successfully winter them when they have plenty of stores and no empty space.  if you have 3 deeps that are crammed full, then by all means, use 3 deeps.  that would be the exception for most of us.  remember that the number of bees goes down over the course of winter.  by the end, there will be fewer bees and more empty space.  better to crowd them at the beginning of winter.
to be honest, i don't know anyone who uses 3 deeps over winter in northern states.

i wouldn't leave any openings or cracks.  close the SBB.  i'm not fond of upper entrances if you have a lower one, but some like them.  yes to the entrance reducers.

[BjornBee]

It does not mean anything as to the size of the cluster, if the bees are not fall raised bees. Any bee not raised in September or October will be dead by the end of December.

Funny how many try to copy the success of feral colonies, yet do everything in their power to not follow what bees show us all the time. Feral bees do not like over-sized cavities. They select a cavity a little less than what a deep and a super would provide.

And your bees will NEVER eat three deeps worth of honey in wintertime. Extra boxes of space, whether filled with honey or not, is detrimental to late winter/early spring buildup.

Myself, I do not place all my marbles in some guy that happened to write a book on beekeeping in the past. The thoughts, experiences, and knowledge of any book is a snapshot in time. And as time passes by, books and what they contain are many times found to be wrong. I can show you all kinds of stuff in books that is wrong today. And you can bet that what is written today, will change drastically 10, 20, or 50 years from now. Don't discount the many beekeepers with vast knowledge because they did not take the time, have the motive, or the need to fullfill an ego, by writing a book. I bet some of the most knowledgeable beekeepers would not write a book no matter the price.

[BjornBee]

When should i put the Styrofoam{1/2 in}under the outer cover?{top}

Good move.

I have been playing around with extra insulation on my nucs and some hives.  The r-value of 1 inch white pine board is about a 1. You can't get any lower than that. I used r-7.5 pink insulated foam on some of my hives last year and it seemed to help, especially with spring buildup.

I bet that old oak tree that has that feral colony in it, has a better r-value than 1. But I guess all that means nothing with the whole "Lets build hives with top entrances stuff going on nowadays".

Oh yeah, I guess I should also mention that many, many books claimed that bees do not benefit from trapped heat at the top of the hive. That somehow the bees had no use for heating the hive, as they only heated the cluster. But we also now have the ability to take thermal pictures and can actually see that the top box does retain heat and bees do actually use that as a benefit in late winter for early spring buildup. They may not purposely heat the hive, but they do manage their resources in a manner that allows them to take full advantage of trapped heat and their movement upwards through winter.

I think the 1 inch wood hive and especially the standard top that we buy for our hives, is about the worst piece of equipment we still use today in beekeeping....especially in the north.

[backyard warrior]

So if my hives have two deeps with brood and two mediums filled with honey what do i do to get the two mediums with honey off the hive. Most of their stores are in the top two boxes????

[BjornBee]

So if my hives have two deeps with brood and two mediums filled with honey what do i do to get the two mediums with honey off the hive. Most of their stores are in the top two boxes????

It's hard to do some things in October. What you have is what you have. And I really do not like to change over hive dynamics late in the year as it can mess things up.

The discussion had to do with the ideal situation and number of boxes. But that is something to be considered in July when your winter prep should have started.

You can at least take off one medium. Beyond that, I would leave the rest alone. Without seeing your hive myself, I could not give further advice. Just keep in mind next year that winter prep starts way sooner than now. And extra boxes on top of the winter chamber is just dead air space. Extra honey may sound nice, but you do get to a point where it is overkill and becomes detrimental to the hive.

As with most beekeeping nothing is black and white. Many comments are based on giving you the BEST chances. Not that the bees will die if you leave those boxes on. But more to do with what gives bees the best optimal situation.

If you have two full mediums and two half fill deep with honey, you have about 180 pounds of honey on your hive. Never will they eat that.

[gardeningfireman]

Last winter, I overwintered my hives with two deeps and a medium. I won't do that again. The bees moved up into the medium and left the honey in the lowest deep. They would have starved if I didn't switch the boxes around on a warmer day in March! The other problem I had was they started using the med. super as a brood chamber.  This year it is only going to be two deeps!