Keeping extra supers on hives over winter

Echium · October 28, 2010, 05:26:32 PM

I live in central California near the coast and I use all 8 frame medium boxes. One of my hives has been queenless for about a month and a half and I want to combine it with a queenright hive. Between those two hives there is a total of 7 boxes. I also have another queenright hive that has 4 boxes. If I combine two of the hives and then divide the excess boxes between the two remaining hives, will this be too many boxes to have on a hive over winter? That would be 5 mediums on one, and 6 on another. It doesn't get that cold here and there is rarely even a frost. I am mainly worried about getting wax moth problems, and would like to get as much advice as possible. Some have recommended to me to just keep the boxes on the hives but I want to hear what others have to say. Just about every frame has nectar and pollen in it.

Bee-Bop · October 28, 2010, 07:17:22 PM

Sticking empties on top a hive does not mean you are going to keep out wax moths.
Your bees are not going to patrol them just because they are there.

Your bees have to maintain their hive temp, adding vacant space I don't believe is the answer !

I'd freeze the extra frames for at least 24 hrs. then spray them with BT., then stack out of the weather.

Every one do their own thing !
Bee-Bop

AllenF · October 28, 2010, 08:17:47 PM

SHB also like the extra space along with the wax moths.

Echium · October 29, 2010, 03:58:13 AM

I didn't think extra boxes would help prevent wax moths, but was worried that adding more boxes would contribute to having a problem with them. Luckily I don't think we get SHB here. I have been unsure about what to do with all the extra frames if I combined because they are filled with nectar and pollen. It would be easier to deal with if they were empty. But today I just decided to take a frame with fresh eggs and put it in the queenless hive. I have serious doubts as to wether or not the bees will be able to raise and mate a queen this time of year, but I checked all three of my hives today and there are still drones in all of them. The weather has not been cold, not that it will stay that way over the next month. If that hive is unable to raise a queen and ends up dying out, then oh well. Is that too harsh? I really wish I could just find someone who had a queen to spare. Anyone have one?

caticind · October 29, 2010, 10:44:15 AM

It's temperature that governs how late is too late to raise a queen, not time of year per se. If the colonies in your area still have drones, then you might be able to get a queen mated.

The more important question is: are you really certain the hive is queenless? How are you sure?

AllenF · October 29, 2010, 04:46:36 PM

Don't forget you can store frames with honey in the freezer , or freeze for a couple of days and then bag after they have dried out.

Echium · October 29, 2010, 05:29:53 PM

I can't say I'm positive that the hive is queenless, but it has been a month and a half since doing a small split to prevent swarming. There were queen cells at that time, and since then I have not been able to find any queen or eggs, even yesterday when I checked. I didn't want a laying worker situation so I put the frame of eggs in there just in case and am going to leave it at that. I'm just crossing my fingers that everything will work out! What would be the minimum temperatures required for it to be warm enough for a queen to mate? Actually I just checked the forecast and it should be 60's and 70's at least for the next two weeks. Even night temperatures are at 50 or a couple degrees below that so it's not bad at all.

As far as freezing the frames....honey is one thing. But can I freeze them with nectar and pollen inside? And then store them in plastic bags? That is something I would really like to know.

Tommyt · October 30, 2010, 08:33:37 AM

QuoteI didn't want a laying worker situation so I put the frame of eggs in there just in case and am going to leave it at that.

Where did this come from ? I would think a Queen right hive.
I have something very similar so I hope, I bring more replies?
I would like to Know what would happen if you put the Queen from the Q right hive
using a cage, would you not be able to see them attempting to help ? or hurt ?

Tom

caticind · October 30, 2010, 10:20:56 AM

Quote from: Echium on October 29, 2010, 05:29:53 PM
I can't say I'm positive that the hive is queenless, but it has been a month and a half since doing a small split to prevent swarming. There were queen cells at that time, and since then I have not been able to find any queen or eggs, even yesterday when I checked. I didn't want a laying worker situation so I put the frame of eggs in there just in case and am going to leave it at that. I'm just crossing my fingers that everything will work out! What would be the minimum temperatures required for it to be warm enough for a queen to mate? Actually I just checked the forecast and it should be 60's and 70's at least for the next two weeks. Even night temperatures are at 50 or a couple degrees below that so it's not bad at all.

A queen can mate if she can fly during the day and there are enough drones. However, I think the odds are either 1) that you have a newly mated queen who hasn't started laying yet, or possibly, 2) that your new queen never came back from her mating flight in which case you are truly queenless.

Were the queen cells capped at the time you did the split? If not, are you sure they had larvae in them, or were they just empty cells, which some hives like to keep on hand? If they were capped, then the new queen should have started laying about a week ago and you might have reason to think she's gone. If some were open, then your new queen might not start laying for another week.

You said there were no eggs. Was there brood of any other age? If there was any brood at all in the hive, then you have a queen - as the math says that all brood from a queen who is removed (in the split) will have hatched before the new queen starts to lay.

I wouldn't suggest a combine in any situation where it is possible you still have a queen, because if you do the colonies will fight and there is a strong chance that you lose the queen you know you have.

If you are queenless, then putting a frame of eggs into the hive will allow the bees to attempt to rear a new queen. If they don't and you continue to be broodless, then I would suggest freezing the frames of honey and pollen and saving them to feed back to your queenright colonies in the spring. Wish I had that kind of reserve this year!

Echium · October 30, 2010, 04:08:46 PM

The queen cells I saw were capped, but there has been no brood at all. I figured that if the queen made it, she should be laying by now! I think I did the right thing by putting a frame of eggs from the other hive into this one. It is my last hope! It is a beautiful sunny day today, and I hope that kind of weather just continues for the next month. If it ends up being unsuccessful, then I will combine, but I really don't want to.