Lawn chemicals

Countryboy · February 05, 2011, 12:12:04 AM

Michigan has a ban on Phosphorus in lawn fertilizers,

Are you serious? You'll just end up with phosphorus deficient plants. Of course, most lawn plants don't need strong stalks so phosphorus isn't as important for them.

Now your garden plants do need good stems. You should be able to buy garden fertilizer with phosphorus in it.

The Native Americans taught the colonists to bury fish when planting corn. We now know that fish is high in phosphorus - it acts as a good starter fertilizer for corn. (Farmers commonly dribble liquid 10-34-0 fertilizer when planting corn seed.)

One of the price drivers for the cost of 10-34-0 is that it is produced from green phosphoric acid. If the chemical companies refine the green phosphoric acid a little differently, they can sell it for 3X the price because it is used in soft drinks. (Or so said a fertilizer rep a few years ago.)

You can also start planting buckwheat in your yard. Not only is buckwheat a good bee plant, but buckwheat is especially good at scavenging phosphorus from the soil. It can pick it up in forms unusable to other plants, and buckwheat breaks it down so that it is accessed more easily by the next crop.

BlueBee · February 05, 2011, 12:22:41 AM

CountryBoy,

I couldn't believe it either, but it's true. I think farmers can still get access to Phosphorus, but not us residential folks. The phosphorus from fertilizers and washing detergent was making a mess (algae blooms) along our fresh water rivers and lakes. That seems to be what prompted the ban.

The legislature claims our clay soil has an abundance of phosphorus already and there is no need to add more. They might be right, I really have no idea.

I'm not sure how this is going to affect my pumpkin growing!

Brian D. Bray · February 05, 2011, 02:18:13 AM

Time for a new bumper sticker: WEEDS MAKE GREAT HONEY

AllenF · February 05, 2011, 02:25:04 AM

That's a good idea. I think you are on something there.

tillie · February 05, 2011, 10:03:00 AM

Brian, I like the bumper sticker. I'm working with two guys to build an apiary in south Georgia a couple of hours south of Atlanta. They keep asking me what to plant on the farm. I'm going to tell them "Weeds make great honey!"

Linda T in Atlanta

Countryboy · February 06, 2011, 12:56:35 AM

Just make sure they don't plant grass weeds. Grasses are wind pollinated.

David McLeod · February 06, 2011, 12:01:04 PM

Tillie, I'm south of you in Hampton and am familiar with bees inside the perimeter. One of the calls I regularly get every year during the spring is for a swarm "all over" my shrubbery. Almost invariably it is going to be a holly in bloom. Atlanta is the home of the Burford Holly and it and it's kin are one of if not the main foundation and landscape plantings in the metro area.
I bring this up due to an unscrupulous practice by many PCOs and NWCOs when they get this type of call. The panicked customer just "knows" there is a hive of bees in there and wants something done NOW and will not listen to reason. I know I've walked away many times shaking my head. Instead of listening to reason, the bees will be gone when the bloom ends or if it's that much of an issue cut the holly down or don't plant a blooming plant that close to your front door, they will get some jackleg to dust the bushes with sevin or some other pesticide. IMO, this should be illegal and to be sure the Structural Pest Control Board at the Dept of Ag frowns on this but with only two investigators for the whole state who's to stop it.
Don't be suprised if any hive inside the perimeter doesn't get exposed to this sort of stuff and brings it back to the hive.

Rosalind · February 06, 2011, 01:10:51 PM

Quote from: Countryboy on February 05, 2011, 12:12:04 AM
Michigan has a ban on Phosphorus in lawn fertilizers,

Are you serious? You'll just end up with phosphorus deficient plants. Of course, most lawn plants don't need strong stalks so phosphorus isn't as important for them.

Now your garden plants do need good stems. You should be able to buy garden fertilizer with phosphorus in it.

Thread drift question for Countryboy et al.:
Since most of the agricultural phosphate supplement is mined from areas that are projected to run out in the next century, do you know of any methods to recapture excess phosphate on a commercial scale? I know phosphates have been removed from many detergents, so greywater irrigation wouldn't be too helpful for the smallholder.

Vetch · February 06, 2011, 01:25:01 PM

Rosalind,

the only real answer (and one most people don't want to hear) involves sewage. We can't continue to take X million tons of nitrogen and phosphorous away from our fields, run it through our human systems, and then literally flush that resource down the toilet.

Kathyp · February 06, 2011, 02:07:23 PM

vetch, our local sewer plant will bring the truck and spray the waste on your fields for free. they have to truck the sludge out anyway, so if you are close, it's in their interest.

Vetch · February 06, 2011, 02:26:09 PM

Yeah, there are some places that even sell it as a commercial fertilizer (Milorganite from Milwaukee).

One problem is that municipal treatment plants also take a variety of inputs from industry - heavy metals are often a problem with our current system, unless it is tested I would not use it for food crops. Septic tanks are a better solution IMO, as they are local. But if they leak, then there is microbial contamination. Plus, to make things truly sustainable, we need to return the nutrients to the fields they came from. No simple solution.

Kathyp · February 06, 2011, 03:05:25 PM

ours is a little treatment plant. it's barely able to keep up with the town of sandy. years ago, some tree huggers decided that septic tanks were bad and the town put in a treatment plant. then the town grew.....

fortunately, i don't have to worry about it. septic for me! :-D

BjornBee · February 06, 2011, 04:40:18 PM

kathy,
I had you pegged for this.....

http://www.permies.com/permaculture-forums/3965_0/general-homesteading/women-peeing-outdoors

:-D

Kathyp · February 06, 2011, 05:27:17 PM

oh, i go both ways. however, squatting with you pants around your ankles is a vulnerable position. doing it with a weapon in hand can lead to unwanted rust. + it makes pulling your pants back up a little awkward.....

Countryboy · February 07, 2011, 11:00:21 PM

Of course, most lawn plants don't need strong stalks so phosphorus isn't as important for them.

I take that back. Potash is for stalks. Phosphorus is for roots and buds.

do you know of any methods to recapture excess phosphate on a commercial scale?

Fish is high in phosphorus. It wouldn't surprise me to see fish remains from fish processing plants become a commercial source of phosphorus. I suspect humanure will become more prevalent too.

Brian D. Bray · February 09, 2011, 01:06:24 AM

If I had 20 acres to dedicate to nothing but bee plants I would seed it with a whole lot of what they sell in those packets of wild flower seeds with some white clover, vetch, and alfalfa mixed in. It would bloom all summer and give a large variety of forage.