Nuc going backwards-Need advice

Started by dean0, April 17, 2011, 01:13:29 PM

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dean0

April 17, 2011, 01:13:29 PM
I need some advice on what to do about a 5 frame nuc that I transferred to a deep on March 7th.  I believe I lost my original queen in a swarm shortly after making the transfer. I was in the hive about 2 weeks ago and found a new queen, a little larvae and a little capped brood.  I went into the hive yesterday and the bees are concentrated on 2 frames and are not building comb if any.  I only found capped brood and larvae on both sides of one frame but not very much.  There isn't much activity in front of this hive until 9 or 10am but they work until dark. I have tried feeding but they are not taking much at all. This queen is very very slow. 

I have another hive that was started from a swarm/cutout about 2 weeks ago and it is going to town. In 2 weeks I have 7 frames of foundationless comb and capped brood on all 7 frames.  They are starting to draw comb on my frames with foundation. It won't be long before I have to add another box. There is a lot of activity in front of this hive from very early in the morning (7am) until dark.

I am thinking I have 3 options for the nuc hive.

1.)Take a frame of capped brood from my swarm hive and hope that will kick start the nuc hive; or,

2.)Take a frame of capped brood from the swarm hive, squish the nuc queen and let them make a new queen; or,

3.)Try making a split so I end up with 3 hives. Find the queen in the nuc hive and transfer her back to an actual 5 frame nuc with some capped brood from my swarm hive.  I would also have to transfer some capped brood from my swarm hive to my slow nuc hive and hope they will make a new queen.

I really hate the thought of messing with the swarm hive since they appear to be doing so well.

Thanks in advance for any and all advice.

Dean0

AllenF

#1
April 17, 2011, 06:24:12 PM
2 more options come to mind.    You could start feeding them or you could combine with another hive.

I think I would keep giving them brood until either they start something or I get tired and replace that queen, all while feeding to get them to build out frames. 

iddee

#2
April 17, 2011, 06:56:13 PM
Look for pollen frames next to the brood frame. Move it or them to the outside. She won't cross the pollen frame to lay eggs.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

don2

#3
April 17, 2011, 07:14:12 PM
Loosing a producing Queen like that and "if" they hatch another Queen, they will decline un till things get back into full swing. If the new Queen does O K. If you have another colony that is doing good, take a frame of fully capped brood, shake all the bees off back into the hive it comes from. Give it to the nuc and rock on. :)don2

hardwood

#4
April 17, 2011, 10:34:28 PM
New queen hasn't ramped up yet...give it a week.

Scott
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

Brian D. Bray

#5
April 19, 2011, 12:02:19 AM
I like options 1 & 2 best.  The slower queen just might have a been a slow starter and putting a frame of brood (w/eggs) in the hive might encourage her to do better and will keep the hive from depleting its population to quickly.  If the bees are dissatisfied with the present queen, chances are they will supercede her by rearing a queen from the new frame of brood.
Life is a school.  What have you learned?   :brian:      The greatest danger to our society is apathy, vote in every election!

backyard warrior

#6
April 19, 2011, 10:49:51 PM
good packages take off right from the start if you have a sluggish hive that isnt drawing out comb and laying lots of brood on drawn foundation id replace the queen if it isnt keeping up with the other hives in  your apairy  Chris

hardwood

#7
April 19, 2011, 11:12:11 PM
Read his post everyone...his nuc swarmed soon after he hived them.

Scott
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

iddee

#8
April 20, 2011, 12:00:09 AM
I know I'm repeating myself, but it sounds like he bought a nuc and left it as it came when moving to a 10 frame. That is, 2 or 3 frames of brood and frames of pollen on each side. The bees used that as a hive and didn't spread out. Thus, they swarmed from being crowded into five frames. Then the new queen won't spread either, so he is still stuck with a nuc in a 10 frame box. Move the pollen and honey frames to the outside and put the empties next to the brood. Then she will spread the brood nest.
"Listen to the mustn'ts, child. Listen to the don'ts. Listen to the shouldn'ts, the impossibles, the won'ts. Listen to the never haves, then listen close to me . . . Anything can happen, child. Anything can be"

*Shel Silverstein*

hardwood

#9
April 20, 2011, 01:13:44 AM
Solid advice iddee. but this one has already swarmed and (presumably) has a newly mated queen and dwindling population.

This is actually one of my nucs...very strong and ready to explode when he picked it up. He transferred it right off the bat but she still swarmed within a couple of days. I'll be happy to help him with anything he needs (feel free to call DeanO) but I'm curious to see how they (my product) gets going. Give her a week Dean. I'll make things right if you're not satisfied!

Scott
"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag...We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language...And we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."

Theodore Roosevelt 1907

buzzbee

#10
April 20, 2011, 07:26:47 AM
A frame of emerging brood would get the population up quicker.

dean0

#11
April 20, 2011, 08:39:54 AM
Quote from: hardwood on April 20, 2011, 01:13:44 AM
I'll make things right if you're not satisfied!

Scott, I was very satisfied with the very strong nuc I got from you.  You cannot control nature and could not have predicted that they would swarm.  The bees are still alive so I know I didn't get a sick hive.  You don't need to do anything to make it right except to continue offering me advice.  I think maybe they just need time like you said to build back up after the swarm. I should have some emerging brood from both hives soon so hopefully that will kick start them when they realized they have more mouths to feed. Maybe taking a frame of brood from the bees we got from Paisley would help. 
I appreciate everyone's advice.  Thanks

Dean0
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