Making a spit?

Guy · May 13, 2011, 04:29:27 PM

Can I take two frames from different hives and make a split? Would it be OK to re-queen the hive the frames are coming from at the same time and use the old queen in the nuc? This is my first year to have bees. How far does the split need to be from the parent hive?

hankdog1 · May 13, 2011, 04:39:46 PM

why are you taking bees from two hives to make a split?

AliciaH · May 13, 2011, 05:23:34 PM

Guy: Maybe you could provide a bit of background information on why you're splitting and what your plan is? If we can better understand your goal, you'll get the answers you're looking for. How long you've had your existing hives would be helpful, too, I think.

Hemlock · May 13, 2011, 05:24:14 PM

I imagine one can take a frame from any number of hives to make a single Split or Nuc. The field bees go back home leaving the house bees to figure it all out. *I'm sure someone will let us know if that causes fighting between frames*; though I've not see it before.

Personally, i like to let the split or Nuc make their own queen. That queen can then be watched to see if shes a good queen or not. I'd rather have a bad queen in a smaller split or Nuc than in a main hive.

There are good reasons to take the queen from the main hive and place her with the smaller colony. In Spring it acts as a False Split which aids to keep the bees from Swarming. The main hive also has more resources for making queens than does a smaller one. The difference being between 4 frames of brood in a split/nuc and 10 to 15 frames of brood in a main hive.

I'm still new at this but it's been working so far...

Guy · May 13, 2011, 06:17:27 PM

Quote from: AliciaH on May 13, 2011, 05:23:34 PM
Guy: Maybe you could provide a bit of background information on why you're splitting and what your plan is? If we can better understand your goal, you'll get the answers you're looking for. How long you've had your existing hives would be helpful, too, I think.

They were started form packages in March.

Guy · May 13, 2011, 06:24:43 PM

Quote from: hankdog1 on May 13, 2011, 04:39:46 PM
why are you taking bees from two hives to make a split?

All I have are two hives. I feel uncomfortable taking four from one of them even though there is solid brood and gobs of bees in the brood chamber.

Guy · May 13, 2011, 06:28:18 PM

Quote from: Hemlock on May 13, 2011, 05:24:14 PM
I imagine one can take a frame from any number of hives to make a single Split or Nuc. The field bees go back home leaving the house bees to figure it all out. *I'm sure someone will let us know if that causes fighting between frames*; though I've not see it before.

Personally, i like to let the split or Nuc make their own queen. That queen can then be watched to see if shes a good queen or not. I'd rather have a bad queen in a smaller split or Nuc than in a main hive.

There are good reasons to take the queen from the main hive and place her with the smaller colony. In Spring it acts as a False Split which aids to keep the bees from Swarming. The main hive also has more resources for making queens than does a smaller one. The difference being between 4 frames of brood in a split/nuc and 10 to 15 frames of brood in a main hive.

I'm still new at this but it's been working so far...

Thanks it is a lot for a newbee to think about.

njoylife10 · May 13, 2011, 07:04:54 PM

I'm envisioning a teeny tiny fire with a bee on a spinning stick :)

Thanks for the afternoon chuckle :)

njoylife10

AllenF · May 13, 2011, 08:46:59 PM

Packages in March? How many frames of bees in each hive? On new foundation or drawn frames? Are you going to feed them the rest of the summer to keep their numbers up in the fall so they can make it in winter? That is what I would look at before I split new hives.

AliciaH · May 13, 2011, 09:30:05 PM

Your hives sound very new, Guy. Making splits is a great way to increase the size of your apiary, but if you rush it and start splitting too soon, you run the risk of all your hives being weak, which will make next winter very hard on them. Better to build up the two you have, give them the chance to be awesome, and split next year.

If you just want an extra queen for a resource, then your power is in the second hive. You can place frames of eggs from a queenright hive into a queenless hive and they will make one.

Not trying to discourage you, Guy, just urging caution. It's fun to play with the bees! But like everything else with bees, patience will get you farther, faster, every time......folks here taught me that. :)

hardwood · May 13, 2011, 09:30:43 PM

As Allen alludes to, it does sound like you might be moving a little too fast on this. In answer to your original question though absolutely! Try to make sure that the frames are mostly open brood to insure a higher percentage of young nurse bees (which normally don't fight) and do it during flying times (mid day, good weather) and you should be fine.

Scott

hardwood · May 13, 2011, 09:32:34 PM

And what Alicia wrote...we posted at the same time :-D

Guy · May 13, 2011, 10:56:47 PM

Quote from: AliciaH on May 13, 2011, 09:30:05 PM
Your hives sound very new, Guy. Making splits is a great way to increase the size of your apiary, but if you rush it and start splitting too soon, you run the risk of all your hives being weak, which will make next winter very hard on them. Better to build up the two you have, give them the chance to be awesome, and split next year.

If you just want an extra queen for a resource, then your power is in the second hive. You can place frames of eggs from a queenright hive into a queenless hive and they will make one.

Not trying to discourage you, Guy, just urging caution. It's fun to play with the bees! But like everything else with bees, patience will get you farther, faster, every time......folks here taught me that. :)

They are doing so well I added a deep to the hive to give her room to lay and they are filling it with honey and no brood. We originally got bees for pollination. Now I want more bees. I hope I am replying to you post correctly.

Guy · May 13, 2011, 11:07:56 PM

Quote from: AllenF on May 13, 2011, 08:46:59 PM
Packages in March? How many frames of bees in each hive? On new foundation or drawn frames? Are you going to feed them the rest of the summer to keep their numbers up in the fall so they can make it in winter? That is what I would look at before I split new hives.

Yes in March I went with my mentor to south Georgia to pick up 280 packages two of witch were mine. There are bees on all ten frames that were started on one drawn frame and 9 dadant that has the wires in it. No problem on the feeding. Those are some good things to consider and I want to do what is best fore the bees. Thanks

sc-bee · May 13, 2011, 11:59:57 PM

Bees from two different hives usually fight! Splits from three hive and bees seem not to fight ---- I guess the extra confusion.

You would have introduce a queen or have them make one. I guess you could make a newspaper combine with queenright frames from one hive and queenless frames from another.

Weak splits this time of year can lead to SHB problems, especially as you get into summer ---- if you have SHB. Alabama, I should think you have your share??? If you split go to nus or a full size with a divider board and add space only as you need it.

I was anxious to add bees my first year and had two strong hives by early to mid June. I bought two queens and split each hive. Went on vacation in july for two weeks and came home to honey oozing out the front of a hive :( I lost three of the four---- my first experience with SHB!

Ask some local beeks if they feel it is a legitimate threat in your area.

Guy · May 14, 2011, 12:06:06 AM

I have SHB. Not a lot but enough. I hope to keep them down with traps.

sc-bee · May 14, 2011, 12:13:36 AM

What kind of trap? If you trap early you may stand a chance???? If they get the upper hand, It's more than a fight :-x

Not trying to be negative --- just trying to let you see both side.

Guy · May 14, 2011, 12:48:22 AM

AJ's and CD cases. I am concerned about varora mites too.

sc-bee · May 14, 2011, 07:31:50 AM

Alot of folks may :( but i use the James Bond method ---- Live and Let Die! I treat for nothing--- will trap bettles if I have too.

For varroa use a more varroa resistant (hygienic) stock.

preston39 · May 14, 2011, 08:41:05 AM

For varroa use a more varroa resistant (hygienic) stock.
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No doubt a good objective.

Can you help on the best way to accomplish this?

How can you tell when this has been achieved?