Foundationless Progress

rail · June 01, 2011, 02:04:55 PM

Seventeen days since package install, they have taken only 4 cups (8 oz. ea.) in fourteen days. Three frames are as pictured, two other frames are drawing out and three are empty (8 frame deeps).

Kathyp · June 01, 2011, 02:15:55 PM

very nice. as they progress you may rotate those undrawn frames toward the center. just don't tip them before they are attached well on the sides!! :-D

Riggs · June 01, 2011, 02:19:22 PM

Thanks for posting, I added a 8 frame medium super foundationless this morning, I'm eager to see how they do.

Hemlock · June 01, 2011, 02:58:12 PM

Nice...

How big was the package?

rail · June 01, 2011, 03:06:24 PM

Quote from: Hemlock on June 01, 2011, 02:58:12 PM
Nice...

How big was the package?

3 lbs.

VolunteerK9 · June 01, 2011, 03:57:57 PM

Aint it cool to see what bees do naturally?

If you belong to a bee club, how many people told you that it wouldnt work? I was told by countless beeks that it couldnt be done and that all it would do is cause a huge mess. When I showed them a completed frame, someone said that I must have gotten lucky. LoL
Yeah right..out of all the packages that were picked up that day, I was the only one lucky enough that received the 3 that could build straight comb.

schawee · June 02, 2011, 12:42:13 AM

looks good ,i love my foundationless frames.i like when they make 3 or 4 teardrops combs on a frame and when they finish drawing, everything is perfect . schawee

rail · June 02, 2011, 02:22:09 AM

Quote from: VolunteerK9 on June 01, 2011, 03:57:57 PM
Aint it cool to see what bees do naturally?

If you belong to a bee club, how many people told you that it wouldnt work? I was told by countless beeks that it couldnt be done and that all it would do is cause a huge mess. When I showed them a completed frame, someone said that I must have gotten lucky. LoL
Yeah right..out of all the packages that were picked up that day, I was the only one lucky enough that received the 3 that could build straight comb.

It is cool to see it naturally! :-D

Everyone that I had asked, locally here, discouraged me about foundationless. I'm happy about my decision to try foundationless for my first hive!

Grieth · June 02, 2011, 08:46:05 AM

Can't wait to see another photo of that frame from your next inspection!

mushmushi · June 02, 2011, 12:58:15 PM

Quote from: VolunteerK9 on June 01, 2011, 03:57:57 PM
If you belong to a bee club, how many people told you that it wouldnt work? I was told by countless beeks that it couldnt be done and that all it would do is cause a huge mess. When I showed them a completed frame, someone said that I must have gotten lucky. LoL

Yeah same story here too: messy comb, drone comb, unextractable frames, illegal, etc. :roll:

All FUD of course. 8-)

jmblakeney · June 02, 2011, 01:10:28 PM

Quote from: rail on June 02, 2011, 02:22:09 AM
Everyone that I had asked, locally here, discouraged me about foundationless.

Ditto, It feels so good to show them wrong though! :-D :-D :-D

Michael Bush · June 03, 2011, 02:39:54 AM

The funny thing is everyone has failures for different reasons and often blame something. If you were trying plastic and they messed it up you might blame the plastic, when maybe the problem was you didn't push them together and left too much space. If you were using wax and it melted and collapsed and they build a mess in their, you'd figure the problem is wax and buy plastic next time. When actually it's because you put the foundation in too soon, or didn't get it in right. If you get messed up foundationless, you'd probably blame foundationless, when actually it is probably spacing or leaving a queen cage in or something else the led to the issues and would have even in a hive with foundation.

So the people who don't believe in foundationless probably had a bad experience with foundation and blamed it on something that probably wasn't the cause and assume the problem would be worse with foundationless.

I've actually heard beekeepers say that bees won't draw comb without foundation. Or that they will build nothing but drone comb without foundation. Things that obviously can't be true if bees have survived in the wild for these tens of thousands of (or possibly many more) years.

rail · June 09, 2011, 10:45:41 PM

25 days since package install; 20 days since queen cage removal; 11 days without 1:1 feed; "capped stores" present when feeder removed.

No capped stores present this evening, nectar is present in cells. Five drawn frames as in picture posted above. One frame has center brood area uncapped. Could not see larvae, late evening, poor lighting outside. Inspected two hours after a rain shower. The bees were docile during inspection. One bee was white fuzzy looking.

The bees have been very active the past two weeks bringing in pollen, noticed as late as 8:45 pm.

Put feeders back onto the hive this evening.

How is the progress of the hive? Any thing that I should change?

FRAMEshift · June 10, 2011, 09:24:45 AM

Sounds like you are doing fine. I don't think you need to be feeding now. We are still in main flow in central NC and that will last until about the middle of July unless we get into a drought. You don't want the bees to start backfilling the brood nest with sugar syrup, so I would wait until mid July to put the feeders back on. From then until September you can let them store sugar syrup for winter. Then we get a light fall flow in September and October so you might be able to take the feeders off again if they have sufficient stores for winter.

Ollie · June 11, 2011, 09:21:29 AM

I love foundationless.
One 17 inch, 1/8 X 3/4. stappled instead of the foundation. I melt wax on that after it is in the frame.
wires in the frames.
Good to go!

Reclaiming the frames is a breeze and so fast, cut the wax at the stick, break at the wires, hit the remaining wax with a blow torch and the frames are good to be used again.

...plus they seem to build faster and work more frames right away without the foundation in their way.

rbinhood · June 11, 2011, 03:57:27 PM

I went foundationless more years ago than a lot of you have been out of diapers. The way I see it is the bee's seem happer you have larger more healthier bees that produce more honey than with foundation. One other thing, why spend your hard earned money on foundation when the bees know more about what they want and need than any man alive.

The only thing about foundationless super frames is that once in a blue moon you get a hive that will build crazy comb, they will build from the bottom up or just build one big mess that resembles a hornets nest, most of the time when they do this they will start building on the queen excluder and work their way up. This is the time to use foundation, and not the entire super just everyother frame. If you watch they will draw out the open frames before they do the frames with foundation. The cells will also be larger and that means less wax and more honey.

iddee · June 11, 2011, 04:02:05 PM

And every small cell user out there will tell you natural comb is smaller cell than foundation and will give you smaller bees. I guess I'll just stick to foundation. At least most agree to it's points, whether good or bad.

hankdog1 · June 11, 2011, 05:16:38 PM

I don't like to take the risk of going foundationless myself. Got too much on my plate right now to worry about how the bees will draw it out without foundation.

mikecva · June 11, 2011, 05:48:41 PM

Looks good. When you put the second box on, let us know how your girls are doing.

rail · June 11, 2011, 06:06:37 PM

26 days since package install, frames 1 thru 5.