Artificial Comb

L Daxon · June 08, 2011, 11:26:50 AM

As a backyard beek one of the things I value the most is drawn out comb.

Are there any articles/reports of work being done on artificial combs, not just the plastic foundation? It would be great to set a package or caught swarm into a box where the comb was already drawn out/in place so the girls could immediately lay/populate/collect nectar and pollen rather than to first have to draw out the comb.

Seems this might help with/eliminate the problem of first year hives not producing any surplus honey. Would also help with the girls who consistently want to build crazy comb sideways, etc. I am sure you would still get burr comb.

Haddon · June 08, 2011, 12:34:22 PM

I use artificial comb call honey super cell.

It works but is hard to get them started on it.
But once you ever get a queen to lay in it you can rotate out the drawn frames for empties so that you can use it else where and after its been used once the queens seem to take to it or at least some do. I have one queen right now that started on a few wax frames and 2 HSC she lays in the HSC first got another with 2 wax frames and then used HSC and she will just not move to HSC.

I am happy to answer any questons on it I had the same problem you did thats why I spent the money on the HSC and I would suggest it to any new beekeeper. And if I could get a few more paying cutout I would order more of the stuff. Its good Christmas and birthday gifts to ask for.

Oh and its small cell so your regress your bees in one step.

caticind · June 08, 2011, 06:34:58 PM

Honey Super Cell is full comb made of plastic. But you have to use only that as the bees prefer just about anything else to it.

L Daxon · June 08, 2011, 06:52:11 PM

So they do make it, but queens don't seem to like it.

Seems to me some smart guy/gal would figure out how to make it out of wax, or scent it some way that the queen/bees would like.

AllenF · June 08, 2011, 06:55:16 PM

A wax press maybe?

caticind · June 08, 2011, 07:35:40 PM

It's be wonderful if someone could press or "injection mold" full comb out of wax...maybe a 3d printing company could be persuaded to try it...but I suspect that even then the bees would prefer their own work. That seems to be the case no matter what brilliant idea beeks come up with. :-\

That said, HSC is not much worse than plastic foundation for acceptance, from what I've heard. If you dump a package or swarm into a box and make sure to only give them HSC, they will probably knuckle under and use it. I think once they have used a frame for brood or honey they will continue to use it more easily thereafter.

Anyone here used it extensively who can speak from experience instead of hearsay? :-D

Michael Bush · June 09, 2011, 02:17:32 AM

>Are there any articles/reports of work being done on artificial combs

Honey Super Cell and PermaComb are both fully drawn comb. HSC is 4.9mm. PermaComb is more like 5.05mm

RangerBrad · June 09, 2011, 05:40:06 AM

I only have a few hives but they are all honey super cell and I love it. When I first got it I let it air out for a couple of weeks then sprayed it all down with lemongrass oil before installing the bees on it and they may have been a little slow to take to it at first but not much and I feel once it has been used the bees pretty much treat it like any other comb. It is indestructable and I have had no hive parasite problems. The down side is the initial cost, hard if not impossible to extract honey from and only comes in deeps. Brad

Michael Bush · June 09, 2011, 08:32:25 AM

I'd be curious to hear reports from people who have had SHB problems and have changed to HSC or PermaComb. I wonder how the SHB deal with the solid plastic comb...

John Pfaff · June 09, 2011, 09:12:12 AM

I bought my first nucs this year. A month later, no drawn foundation on plastic and a terrible mess. I ordered supercell, sprayed it down with 1:1 and rubbed it with warm wax. two weeks later all frames occupied and working. I slowly worked the wax out from the center, removing two frames every ten days or so. However, when I added the second deep, I used two of the original wax frames as bait and to give them a place to raise drones and add queen cells as needed.

Hope this helps in some way.

P.S. - still don't know if I can put the supercell in an extractor or not. Dadant doesn't even know what it is.

Later,

John.

Haddon · June 09, 2011, 10:52:14 AM

I am going to have to try the lemon grass trick. Will try this week.

Oh HSC has no wax coating at all.

This is what i was doing and why I bought it. Last year I did a late cutout good hive had a easy 5 gallons of honey on it in the cutout. I will not put honey comb back in a cutout just from problem I have seen. So they were weak down to 7 cutout out brood frames.

I bought HSC to put in there.

First try first frame of the morning I laid the frame down poured pure honey on it and hand pressed the honey into the cells makes the cool popping sound.
Stuck it in the hive as a test as I got everything ready to see if the bees would take it or I would have to coat it with wax. 30 minutes the hive had striped it clean not a ounce of honey left in the frame.

So the next frame I dipped in hot wax using a turkey fryer pot and floating 2 inches of wax on top water.
Dip the frame in as you pull it back out it has a build up of wax on the cells edge. I put 13 in the hive and feed heavy it was fall they had filled it all before winter this spring the queen started laying in them.

L Daxon · June 09, 2011, 12:56:12 PM

HSC coming only in deeps would be a downer for me as I only use medium equipment, but I guess you could cut it down.

I was asking about buying fully formed comb because it takes bees so much more effort/nectar/trips/etc. (8xs?) to produce wax and build out the comb than it does to collect nectar and turn it into capped honey. If the goal is honey production, relieving the girls of having to first build out the comb, i would think, would result in more honey production.

And new packages/swarms would be able to get off to a much faster start if they land on fully formed comb -- but not if they don't like it, I guess.

ld

caticind · June 09, 2011, 01:37:12 PM

But as noted above people have a lot of trouble extracting from full plastic comb, so you might not actually benefit from that increase in production.

L Daxon · June 09, 2011, 01:45:31 PM

caticind,

I would only use the HSC in the brood nest. I have to crush and strain so I have to have real/full wax in my supers.

Just thought the HSC would be good to have like right now. Just got a swarm call and would be nice to have something already drawn out/completed cells to put them one to get a faster start.

Commercial or big yard keepers may have extra frames laying around but us newer backyard keeps (at least me) don't seem to have much surplus stuff on hand.

Haddon · June 09, 2011, 06:30:52 PM

I hate to say it but die offs is where I have gotten my extra comb over the last 2 years.

Permacomb comes in mediums but last time I looked you still had to order a 1000 frames at a time.

Michael Bush has permacomb or he did I don't think there was much of a price difference between permacomb and HSC but you can buy HSC by the 20 frames.

Also It works really well to get your bees to draw straight natural comb by having HSC on either side of a empty frame.