Deal or no deal??? Should I buy some existing hives?

Intheswamp · June 29, 2011, 01:39:56 PM

I'm venturing into the bee keeping arena...I've got a wife, two daughters, two granddaughters...I've always been outnumbered by the ladies so why not a couple hundred thousand more, eh? :)

Anyhow, I've already posted some of my plans on starting out with two hives and going from there. It's also in the middle of the season, too late for package bees, mostly to late for swarms, and I don't have any equipment yet...no woodenware, no protective clothing, no smoker, nothing... I had been planning on simply buying a couple of packages this coming spring.

Well, I've got a gentleman that will sell me two existing hives (he has several). These will include the active bee colonies on ten frames with some type of foundation, a 10-frame deep brood chamber, a bottom board (not sure if screened), inner cover, and top cover. The wood is a bit weathered but appears to be solid. Looks like plywood bottom boards that have a little de-laminating happening around a couple of edges. I'm seriously considering purchasing these two hives but I don't have a clue about moving them. I'm sure the bk would help me load them up, but I live roughly 65 miles away from him and would probably have to do the unloading myself. I'm thinking that hauling them at night might be the best being as I'd haul them on a pickup truck and it would be too hot (I think) to have them take a 1-1/2 hour drive during the day in the sun...but I've also heard that bees are very defensive at night.

What would be required to move these hives? How is that done? Would this be over my head to attempt?

Thanks for the help,
Ed

Boom Buzz · June 29, 2011, 01:55:23 PM

Intheswamp,

Welcome to beekeeping! It's a fun and rewarding activity! I can provide some starting points but I am sure others with a lot more experience will chime in.

Definitely move them at night after dark so that most of the foraging bees are home in the hive. Also it will be cooler as you mentioned. I use the entrance reducer set to the smallest opening then push a piece of screen in the little opening to keep the bees in. I also use a tie down strap around the hive top to bottom and cinched tight to keep the hive in tact on the drive. You don't want the hive slipping around and coming apart on the drive. One for each hive.

I usually have a spot picked out and waiting for the hive upon my return home. So when I get home with the hive I pull as close to the spot and place the hive in the location I want it to be. Not waiting until the next morning to place it. Remove the screen in the front entrance. This way when the bees wake up the next morning they can orient to their new location. I keep the entrance reducer on for a few days though I usually open it up to the next setting to allow more bees to come and go but also give them a chance to defend the hive.

Hope this helps! Have fun with it!

John

BlueBee · June 29, 2011, 02:28:14 PM

I might also add:

Get a strong 18 year old back to help move the hives to their final spot. Makes it much easier.
Set them in where you want them on the get go. Moving later is a pain.
Unplug the entrance when you get home so the bees have plenty of ventilation.
Beware that when you unplug the entrance, the bees will come pouring out.
The bees will go back into the hive on their own later in the night after they calm down.
Don't use any strong white flashlights or some bees may fly to it AND you.

You can do this, it's not difficult, especially with a little help.

Intheswamp · June 29, 2011, 06:31:39 PM

Thanks for the welcome and feedback, John. I gotcha on the straps, entrance blocked, and night time moving. I've got some anchor eyes in the pickup truck so that I can secure them well in the front of the bed. I'm still trying to figure out where to put the hives. The property slopes (terraced hayfield) down behind the north side of the house. If I drop too far down the hill they won't be in plain sight from the house. Up a few terraces and they'd be in easier view. How far away from the house and foot traffic area should I put them?

BlueBee, that's some mighty fine advice on the 18-year-old back. Now to find one that's willing. :( I'll see what I can do. I can see it now...

18 year old hops in the pick-up truck around 10 o'clock one night..."Yeah I'll be glad to help you move a couple of boxes for $20...that's easy money" Door slams shut and we pull off. "So what's in the boxes?" he asks as we pull up to a red light. I reply, "A hundred thousand very mad honeybees. I don't think they're african killer bees, though, but I'm new at this and really don't know what I'm doing."...as the door opens and the kid tears out running into the dark. Hmf, kids these days got no work ethics... :lol:

Now that I think of it, I know a 53 year old that has a mind about like an 18 year old...I could probably sucker him, er talk him in to helping me...we went to highschool together so he's use to doing crazy things together.<grin> Thanks for telling me about the bright white lights and the sudden rush of the bees when the entrance is unstopped. I might rig up a string to the entrance blockers and pull the blockers out when we drive off....

Thanks for the encouragement!
Ed

vmmartin · June 29, 2011, 07:38:25 PM

I would suggest trying to get some history about the hives. Ex, how old is the queen, how productive, any problems lately. Open them up and peek around to check for issues. Why is he willing to sell those two? Make sure that you are content with the price because you could get them home and they leave in a week or two. I paid for bees once. Once and only once. I find it much more rewarding, and cost effective in my opinion to go get them from tree, house, wall etc. They might make it, they might not but I learn something every time. But that's just me.

Intheswamp · June 29, 2011, 08:11:31 PM

Quote from: vmmartin on June 29, 2011, 07:38:25 PM
I would suggest trying to get some history about the hives. Ex, how old is the queen, how productive, any problems lately. Open them up and peek around to check for issues. Why is he willing to sell those two? Make sure that you are content with the price because you could get them home and they leave in a week or two. I paid for bees once. Once and only once. I find it much more rewarding, and cost effective in my opinion to go get them from tree, house, wall etc. They might make it, they might not but I learn something every time. But that's just me.

Good suggestions, vmmartin. The beek is getting old and is downsizing. He had fifty to sixty hives and has sold off several already. He has several that he is selling. I would love to get some swarm bees, but isn't it too late except for the odd-ball swarm? I'll also have to say that I'm not prepared right now to capture a swarm. What I was looking at was cost for packages that I've seen. These hives seem to fall in the price range of the package bees. For the woodenware and the bees he's asking $150 each. I was thinking that was a fair price, but free is much better...and I would like to have fresher (pest free) furnishings to start with.

Well, I'm not sure what to do really. Maybe wait till next spring?<sigh> I feel like a cat chasing it's tail...I think I've caught it every now and then, I let it go and start chasing it again! :drowning:

Ed

BlueBee · June 29, 2011, 08:27:08 PM

Ed, the bees just crawl at night. When you open the entrance they're going to pour out, but they'll just be crawling unless you're wearing a flashlight. You don't need anything elaborate to pull out the entrance blocker unless it makes you feel more confident. I just wanted to give you a heads up that they will pour out. Two 50 year olds is much better than 1!

If a beek wants to pull the wool over a newbee about the quality of a hive, they can usually do it. Many people sell hives/nucs/bees to make $$ and there's nothing wrong with that motive. You can buy the latest and greatest super queen and re-queen if that is a worry. A full hive might swarm, but you can split such a hive and end up with 2 or 3 hives for the price of 1.

It would be nice to do an inspection of the hives with the seller if you can fit it into your schedule. I would check out the color of the comb and the amount of bees. If there are a lot of bees in the hives, the odds of pests inside is probably low (SHB, wax moths). If the combs are as black a coal, you're going to want to cycle them out of the hive sooner than later to avoid pest problems. You could look for the queen but they can be hard to find in a big hive. A booming hive would make me more confident in the health of the hive than a weak hive.

With a hive you get a box full of comb. With a swarm you get nothing. A queen can't lay without comb and the more comb (within reason) you start with, the better, faster, and stronger a hive can build up.

Intheswamp · June 29, 2011, 11:10:58 PM

Thanks for following up with me, BlueBee. That's a relief to know that they won't fly out with a blood curdling buzz! I've seen it mentioned that bees are more defensive at night, though...not so?

Yelp, two 50 year old rejects from the 70's. I wonder if I could get someone to film us unloading the bees...might take the grand prize on the Funniest Videos show. :roll:

What you said about a beek getting over on a newbie has been on my mind. This guy is respected in his area and has been in the business for something like 50 years. I think he really has a love for the bees and is interested in getting other folks involved in keeping them. As for me knowing what I was looking at...it'd be a first for me. But, I think I could tell if things were "off" or "yucky" I guess. I really have no idea how many bees should be there, though, nor how the population of a hive bees should look volume-wise. I think on this I'd have to trust in seeing nothing obvious and in the beek. I've only met him one time but I think I could trust the beek...I've met several other folks that know him and they seem to respect him.

If I get two of the hives should I just work on getting them setup to make it through the winter or should I go ahead and try to split them?

Thanks,
Ed

iddee · June 29, 2011, 11:25:08 PM

Set them up for winter. It's too late for a split unless you really know what to watch for in the first few weeks. You can lose them all by Sept.

vmmartin · June 30, 2011, 12:02:03 AM

I agree with iddee. Splitting should not be a concern for you this early in the game. Sounds like the guy has a good reputation and that is to be honored and respected. We all know how eager you are and that is cool. The worst that could happen is your out 300 and the drive. If you have a good feeling about it, then go for it.

donaldsharpeusaf · June 30, 2011, 11:34:18 AM

I tell ya, if I could get a complete hive with woodenware and the bees here in East TN for $150 I would be all over it... Moving a hive isn't that big a deal really, like the others said. Just make sure to strap them babies together with the tiedown straps as suggested before. I think you will find this to be a really satisfying experience. Good luck!

Francus · June 30, 2011, 12:09:01 PM

As Iddee told me, take a smoker, fuel, and a way to light it when you transport bees. You just never know.

BeeMaster2 · June 30, 2011, 12:54:11 PM

A couple of points to add:
Use a red lazer light. Don't make the mistake that I did, I used my sons red and white lazer light and used the white to walk across the field and then switched to the red light. On the second trip out, I forgot to switch to red. It was a hot night and there were thousands of bees bearded on the out side of the hives. As soon as I put the white light on them they were all over me. I switched it to red and only the ones on me, stayed with me. It took a little time to smoke all of the bees on the outside of the hives back in. I did forget to check under the hive. After I got them all in, except underneath, I closed them in and left them there. The next morning when we went to load them in the truck we had to be carefull because they were where putting our hands to pick up the hives.
Good luck and enjoy your new herem.
Jim

Scadsobees · June 30, 2011, 03:40:42 PM

It depends on the shape of the hives too and your season. If they've got 2 boxes and you are near the end of your flow, they could have 60 or so lbs of honey per box (plus woodenware and bees), that's a lot for even 2 people to lift.

You won't be able to do that alone unless those hives are single box hives. A dolly at a minimum.

Intheswamp · July 02, 2011, 08:24:35 PM

Well, I ended up buying two hives from a guy about seven miles from me. :) They're still at his place and he's offered to over-winter them for me to insure they make it well through till spring. That was a *really* exciting visit for me. :) I'm wanting to go ahead and get them of course... :-P ...but I've still gotta get some gear up.

I've started another thread about meeting with the beek and subsequently buying the hives...it should be easy to find if you're interested.

Ed

Jim134 · July 02, 2011, 09:23:48 PM

Quote from: Scadsobees on June 30, 2011, 03:40:42 PM
It depends on the shape of the hives too and your season. If they've got 2 boxes and you are near the end of your flow, they could have 60 or so lbs of honey per box (plus woodenware and bees), that's a lot for even 2 people to lift.

You won't be able to do that alone unless those hives are single box hives. A dolly at a minimum.

APILIFT MASTER

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

Larry Bees · July 02, 2011, 09:58:03 PM

Wow! That was one commercial that I didn't mind watching. That Apilift Master is really something!

Its much more than I need, but I bet the "big boys" could use a couple of those.

Larry

naturaledge · July 03, 2011, 12:25:25 PM

If you do transport them put the hives parallel with the truck so the frames don't bang back and forth every time you stop and start just in case .

Intheswamp · July 03, 2011, 09:07:28 PM

Man, I can decide rather to spend the extra to get the big smoker or use what I'd save buying the smaller one to purchase one of those Apilifts.

That's a cool contraption!!! It was interesting to see the different uses for it.

naturaledge, I see what you're talking about. I'll be driving gently and the frames will be kinda dampened/glued by the propolis so it shouldn't be too rough of a trip. I'll be sure an orient the frames parallel with the truck. I've gotta haul them a couple miles down a dirt road before hitting a rough tar and gravel county road before hitting the main state highway to my house....it will be a little bumpy, but I'll take my time. This will be about a 10 mile trip versus the 65+ miles I was looking at earlier. Plus the beek is nearby for any questions/help I might need. :)

Ed