How many boxes for overwintering

[T Beek]

I use all mediums (wood) and try to squeeze down to three boxes but have used as many as four and as few as two for overwintering.  I pile hay around my hives until snow comes then I pile snow on top of that.  Three deeps seems like a lot of room to me but when I started out I kept all my hives in 2-3 deeps for winter.

I use top and bottom entrances, closing just the bottom for winter.

I've wrapped and not wrapped w/ success but am convinced bees prefer wrapping.

I use SBB and have left them wide open w/ success in N/W Wisconsin but am convinced bees prefer it closed up tight during winter.

thomas

[beehappy1950]

T Beek, did you say you close off the bottom entrance for wintering? I often thought of that but always thought they needed air in to carry moisture out.  I always worry when they get snow piled up on front porch. Maybe I will think differently this year. Harold

[Michael Bush]

You need an entrance.  On a warm day (which may be a warm snowy day) they will need to take a cleansing flight.  I like a top entrance so they can fly with snow covering the entrance and so the humidity can vent out.

[Finski]

.
Wintering bees is so wide issue that this kind of discussion cannot offer a solution how  do it.
Then, some for sympathy offers 3 box solution.

Our reseacher tried Macedonian race and its consumption had a speed 80 kg sugar a winter.
Last winter he lost all macedonian trials. To store 80 kg you need 4 langstroths.


Basic problem is that t some level in north you need insulated brood boxes.
It saves winter food 30% and it speeds up spring build up. It saves quite many colonies from total death.

So, you need only 2 insulated boxes per hive and you need not wrapping any more.
Other boxes may be thin wooden boxes.

Polystyrene box is a splended solution. A box weight is only 2 pounds. It is good to beekeeper's back.

So with "experience" you may go to direction of "high consmption" or "low consumption" like with cars.

Wintering has other goals too than only keep them alive.

[BlueBee]

OK, veering off the road here.... 

Finski, why is your researcher trying Macedonian bees?  Does he also use Polystyrene hives? 

[uglyfrozenfish]

Thanks all for your input on this discussion.   I knew that this was a difficult issue to talk about with everyone having vastly different winters, and then different winters from year to year. 

I use all mediums (wood) and try to squeeze down to three boxes but have used as many as four and as few as two for overwintering.  I pile hay around my hives until snow comes then I pile snow on top
of that.  thomas

I have a wind block (hay bails) in front of the entrance. This works well for my bees.

I had been planning on using hay bails as a wind break also.  Do you pile them tight against the boxes?  Do you put them on all four sides?  What about snow drifting onto boxes and covering up entrances?(note: I am slowly being convinced to switch my hives to top entrances before winter.)

When we talk about insulation are we talking about foam board insulation taped or strapped to the exterior of the hive? 
Also, If I take the third deep off of my hives and rearrange so that I am taking only honey off and leaving honey and brood, can I add the third deep in the early spring to help buildup? 
Thanks again
Lee

[T Beek]

T Beek, did you say you close off the bottom entrance for wintering? I often thought of that but always thought they needed air in to carry moisture out.  I always worry when they get snow piled up on front porch. Maybe I will think differently this year. Harold

I'm more concerned w/ letting bee farts and other nastiness (excess condensation) 'out' during winter.  I believe the top entrance also forces bees to move toward the stores on top.

With my own bees I've witnessed them drilling small holes through the snow when they get covered up.  There are some Northern beeks who shovel snow completely over their hives and swear by the practice, never tried it myself, but I do pile it as high as possible w/out covering completely.

Hey, whats all this talk of winter anyway?  It'll be here soon enough :-D

thomas

[beehappy1950]

Its OK. We will talk about extracting this winter. Ha.

[stella]

I have the entrance and a hole the bees made themselves on the back of the hive. They are both on the bottom.
So would anyone suggest drilling a bee sized hole near the top side of the upper deep for exiting, ventilation, etc?
Or do some of you just leave the bees with the bottom entrance.

[T Beek]

Some use top entrances, some use bottom and some use both (some even use side entrances).

That's very curious to have entrances on opposing sides.  How do you approach?  Do your bees have a preference?  Its just me, but I'd want both entrances on the same side.

My Lang top entrances are just a 2 " wide notch on bottom front of inner covers with a vent/feed box above that, closed down to 1 " for winter.  Many beeks advocate drilling holes in supers for ventilation and/or access, but besides vent/feed boxes placed above my inner covers I drill no other holes (they will eventually require plugging at some point).  I also place 2" foam insulation inside vent/feed boxes on top of 5-10 lbs dry sugar as insurance for wintering.

My top entrance on Long Hives is a propped up migratory type cover, wide open in summer, closed to two inches wide for winter.

I'm getting chilly just writing all this :)

thomas

[Finski]

OK, veering off the road here.... 

Finski, why is your researcher trying Macedonian bees?  Does he also use Polystyrene hives? 

macedonian bee has natural resistance against thracheal mite.

Here eveyone winter bees in insulated nives. Polyhive is not essential in that meaning.

[stella]

"That's very curious to have entrances on opposing sides.  How do you approach?  Do your bees have a preference?  Its just me, but I'd want both entrances on the same side."

Hi T Beek, The front original entrance is what they use for coming and going. On the back of the hive they 'drilled' a little hole (amazing how those little buggers can chew). I figured they knew what they were doing and had a reason for it. They dont use it much.

[Oblio13]

Since heat rises, I would think that stores above a cluster would serve as insulation, while empty space below wouldn't make much difference.

[Finski]

Since heat rises, I would think that stores above a cluster would serve as insulation, while empty space below wouldn't make much difference.

you surely must study what means insulating and energy saving.
In a tall hive heat rises and moisture condensate inside the hive.

[BlueBee]

The combs above the cluster don't act like an insulator because they are more or less solid material (atoms against atoms).  Solids allow heat to flow thru them relatively easily via conduction.  For example, concrete and metals flow heat quickly.  Wood has vascular tubes that are filled with air which slows down heat loss some, but not very much.  Foam on the other hand if not very "solid" and is a real insulator. 

In most practical "insulators" little bubbles of air are used to slow down the escape of heat.  Polystyrene foam consists of millions of little plastic bubbles that trap air.  It is these air bubbles that slow down the escape of heat.

The only thing comb and honey in the hive is going to do is provide thermal mass to moderate how quickly the temps in the hive can change.

[Finski]

.
The best insulator is vacuum, like in thermo bottle. It is used in energy windows too, but air is replaised with lighter gas.

Practically air is the best insulator but it must be isolated in small cells tha air cannot circle anr transfer heat. So works stryrox, wool, saw dust, newspaper etc.

Yes, the frames have big ventilating gaps and they give none isolating effect.

Too big space for colony makes easily mold intohive. It does not save energy because energy escapes from cluster. And heat rises up especially.