Might be queenless! Some larvae, eggs??

Poppi · August 01, 2011, 07:29:51 PM

Hey folks,

Acquired a 4 frame nuc just over 2 weeks ago. Transferred the 4 frames into a large hive body. The nuc looked very good... lots of brood, honey, pollen.. left them alone for 7 days and inspected the hive. Saw a few eggs and larvae at all stages... did not see the queen but didn't look hard for her since I saw the eggs and larvae. Feeding 1:1 sugar syrup... they are going through almost a quart daily. Inspected again a week later and again this morning. What I see is it looks like all the orginal brood emerged fine but I am not seeing eggs and very few larvae that look almost ready to cap.

This causes me to think the hive may be queenless... any input on what the next step is would be appreciated. I hesitate to requeen until I'm sure she is no longer in the hive. Also noticed a lot of comb that looks filled with the sugar syrup. They are drawing comb on the new foundation and I would expect to put the next hive body on in a week... except for this problem. Also no sign of queen cells.

Thanks for any help... John

iddee · August 01, 2011, 07:59:42 PM

A lot depends on your location. Please put it in your profile and maybe we can help.

AllenF · August 01, 2011, 08:00:52 PM

Where are you located and are you still feeding? If you are not feeding now and located in an area of dearth, there will be few eggs now. And the eggs may be in the new wax which will be real hard to see the eggs.

FRAMEshift · August 01, 2011, 08:14:46 PM

You don't say how long it has been since you saw any eggs. Based on what you have said, it could have been as recently as a week ago. That's no reason to worry. During a dearth (and in the winter) the queen may lay in brief spurts. Also, if you are feeding heavily and they don't have enough comb, the broodnest may be completely backfilled. Is there adequate space for the queen to lay?

Poppi · August 01, 2011, 08:26:28 PM

Fixed profile... I saw eggs and larvae after the first seven days... today only late stage larvae... by backfill do you mean storing the sugar syrup? The original brood cells are pretty much empty. Only about 25% of the capped brood remains with very few larvae not yet capped. I was told to feed feed feed from the guy I got the nuc from... they have built new comb and it seems to be filled with the sugar syrup. I will check closer tomorrow in the new comb for eggs... thanks

John

FRAMEshift · August 01, 2011, 08:51:58 PM

Quote from: Poppi on August 01, 2011, 08:26:28 PM
Fixed profile... I saw eggs and larvae after the first seven days... today only late stage larvae... John

If you still have uncapped larvae, the queen was laying within the last 9 days. I would not be worried yet. As long as you have plenty of empty space for the queen to lay, you are ok. But I would not just keep feeding or they will fill the broodnest and swarm. If you have 4 frames of bees, then a couple of frames of stored syrup is plenty to get them to September. /October. Then you can decide if they need more feeding.

Poppi · August 01, 2011, 09:30:11 PM

Thanks FRAMEshift I will check again tomorrow for eggs in the new comb, look again at the comb with the sugar syrup in it... I was surprised at the amount... and won't feed and check again in a week... and see what's changed.

John

sc-bee · August 01, 2011, 10:19:27 PM

You are most likely in a dearth ---- I am. Is it your only hive?

Poppi · August 02, 2011, 05:23:53 PM

Update... I inspected the hive again this AM. Found a few eggs and some more larvae in different stages. So the queen is still there... must be the dearth and extreme heat. We have been over 100 every day for a while... I know the bees handle this heat better than I do but until we get back to normal temps (low 90's), I removed the inner cover and replaced it with a screen cover to allow better ventilation.

I am a new beek but am lovin' this... and these bees are extremely gentle... I have been in the hive maybe 5 times and wore all the gear the first two times... TOO HOT!!! I would think dripping sweat into the top of the hive would not be a good thing. I will always wear a veil but it is so much nicer working the hive without gloves. Thanks for all the feedback and help... John

VolunteerK9 · August 02, 2011, 09:20:24 PM

Quote from: Poppi on August 01, 2011, 08:26:28 PM
I was told to feed feed feed from the guy I got the nuc from... they have built new comb and it seems to be filled with the sugar syrup.

A sure fire way to plug the broodnest and make yourself a swarm. I know your just beginning and I'm not harping on you I promise. Its just that "feed,feed,feed' statement from your supplier is one of my worst pet peeves in beekeeping advice.

Poppi · August 02, 2011, 09:28:28 PM

Thanks for the reply VK9... so what do you think about "when" to feed... I have removed the feeder as of this morning. What should I watch for... I know we are in a dearth right now but they seem to have abundant stores for now... and they are building comb which is one reason I was told to feed...

John

caticind · August 03, 2011, 11:48:42 AM

The key is in what you said "they have abundant stores". You should feed when they are lacking stores. The goal of feeding is to make up for a lack of honey in order to get bees through the winter. You are aiming for a particular amount of stores in the hive right before they cluster up. How much depends on your winters and you should ask someone local to you.

The general rule: If they have enough honey, no need to feed at all. If you're coming up on winter and they don't have enough, you feed them until they do have enough. If it's early in the year and they have enough to get to the next flow, no need to feed. If it's a dearth AND they are starving, feed until they have some capped stores.

If you have 4 frames of bees and more than 1 full frame of honey/sugar stores, then they will be ok for a while. Check on them occasionally, and if they are eating it up, feed a little more.

VolunteerK9 · August 03, 2011, 06:10:14 PM

Ditto above. I guess I should just probably keep my mouth shut-I was told to feed,feed,feed too and I wound up with a hive very near to swarming. Caticind said it well. Just feed till they have some capped stores then stop, in particular if you are entering a flow. Dearth feeding is something that I choose to avoid from here on if I can get around it. Its next to impossible to feed one hive without opening the gates to robbing from all the others. It sounds like your hive is doing good and its up to you on whether you continue feeding or not. Just check on them every so often until the Fall flow and go from there. Fall/Pre-Winter feeding is (for me) easier to do if necessary.

Poppi · August 03, 2011, 07:46:57 PM

caticind and VK9... thanks... that makes sense to me. This was a well established nuc and a very active queen. I pulled the feeder 2 days ago and will give them a week and check them again. One reason I was told to feed was because they went into a new hive with 6 frames of foundation to draw.

And they are drawing it... at least they are working on all but the frames against the walls of the hive.

I have the guys name and number who is the Pres of the local beekeepers association, I will talk with him... I need to join the assoc. as well... thanks again... John

NJClydeDriver · August 03, 2011, 09:32:38 PM

Poppi I am a new beek with 3 nucs this year and was told the same thing, feed feed feed and they plugged up all the drawn comb that they brought with them and didnt have enough bees to cover the other frames, so they didnt draw out the other frames... Take some time and read the info from Mr Michael Bush and his website (bushfarms). He gave me great info when I had the problem. Mine are all good since I stopped feeding and they kept drawing, so you did what you were told, but this forum will help you more than one person could ever think of. Beemaster is a BEE SAVER and life saver.

Poppi · August 04, 2011, 03:23:16 PM

NJClydedriver,

Like I said I pulled the feed plug and will check in a week to see how they are doing. I was just going by what the guy I got the nuc from said to do and he has 7 hives and been at it for 3 years... I know about MB's site and actually have read most of what he has there. I am going foundationless and all mediums from here on... I like what he says and it all makes sense to me. Thanks for your reply... John