Open air beehive viability

[Scadsobees]

I recently have been contacted about a hive in a tree.  Well...not *in* the tree, but in the foliage.  The pictures were sent to me from my contact.

My initial thought is that it is a lost cause.  But I was wondering if anybody else has tried to baby one of these types over the winter in our semi-arctic winters?





If I cut it, it's doomed.  It doesn't look like it has a lot of honey.  So that leaves trying to get the whole thing down intact somehow without the bees all flying and sticking it in a big box and feeding it like crazy....

Rest of pictures:

https://picasaweb.google.com/116305278102887341376/Openairbees

[D Coates]

My 2 cents (possibly overpriced ;)) is they have a better chance with you cutting them out as a clump and putting them in a large box with feeding as long as they accept it.  It gets cold here but even colder there.  I can't imagine and open air hive surviving here and I don't see any way for them to survive there without intervention.

Very cool photos, thanks for posting.

[Vance G]

If you really WANTED to save these bees, I would try carefully putting the whole mass in an empty deep super if they will fit and putting a full deep filled with honey on top of that.  I would then feed them 2:1 for a month then wrap them and pray.  In the spring chances are they will be primarily in the standard frames and you can do a cut out on what is not.  Don't know if it is worth it. 

[iddee]

1.. Leave them... They die.

2.. Remove them intact, protect and feed. They have a chance.

3.. Cut out, place in hive, feed. Again, they have a chance.

4.. Remove queen and combine with another weak hive, or keep feral queen and remove weak hive queen. They have the best chance.

[FRAMEshift]

4.. Remove queen and combine with another weak hive, or keep feral queen and remove weak hive queen. They have the best chance.

I think iddee has it right.  I know that in England, open hives like this can survive if they are under a structure so that they are protected from rain.  But that's only if they were there all summer and built up stores.  And that's in England, not Michigan.  The hive in the picture has no chance at all where it is.

A combine will allow these bees to make a contribution to the success of one of your hives.

[BlueBee]

I like everybody else's suggestions better than what I am about to throw out....

A crazy idea would be to just wrap this hive with fiberglass insulation in the tree, duct tape it in place, and leave it until spring.  That would give them descent protection from the elements and the insulation would require less stores for them to make it through our winter.   Probably a loss cause, but maybe less work than cutting the thing out of the tree and then babying them all winter.

Nice photos.  Looks like wild grape vines growing around the hive.  Maybe a walnut tree?  Let us know how this thing works out!

[caticind]

Can't see under the bees, but the outer edges of comb look very new.  Doubtful they have been there long enough to put up enough stores to make it at any size.  If you want to feed them, cut them down and take them home.

[yockey5]

Iddee has it for you.

[zippelk]

who says they won't survive?  this hive www flickr.com/photos/49423192@N08/5046038205/in/photostream thrived in the top of a tree in IL for 6+ years with nothing but wax and bees for protection.

[yockey5]

Amazing, but one in a million methinks.

[FRAMEshift]

I wish we could see the top of the hive.  Hard to believe the bees could make it if rainwater can pour down on them from the top.  Maybe it's sealed or sloped so that the water runs off.

[bee-nuts]

I would do a cut out.  Put the cut out in a deep, add a deep of stores, even add a couple frames of brood from another colony, feed pollen and syrup, and I dont see why they dont have a good chance.

Maybe even a better idea would to be trying to winter them as a nuc or single on top of another colony or a double five frame nuc (two five frame boxes) wrapped up along side of another colony.

In wintered single deeps that I started with two frames of bees last day or two of july.  I did not start feeding till about now which was way to late.  I poured the feed on hard and they built up to 5-8 frames of bees.  4 of six made it.  One had a high mite load and was doomed anyway, the other loss superseded in September and probably never mated.

What do you really have to lose.  give it your best shot.

[Finski]

.
Most of Asian bees make a hive in open air (Apis cerana) but mellifera has ment to use tree cavities or something.

A swarm has escaped and have stoped into a bush. It is not rare.
It is a expencive colony with its combs.

I wonder if you could build a frame around the hive with fast hardening glue + mechano building like components. When the hive is firmly inside the frame, you cut the twigs and lift the hive away.

Or you make a wooden frame box - one wall missing. . Push it around the colony. Then screw the missing wall on site. You tie and glue the colony to the frame and then loose the twigs outside the frame.

You may keep the colony in a big insulated box over winter and next summer you take combs apart.

[derekm]

Remember a wooden hive has almost zero insulation. So the baseline is just shelter from rain and wind. Some tent material or even an old rain coat  thrown over it would be possibly be a step up.

A step up, find/buy form charity shop an old  warm coat with a zip up the front, use the sleeves to attach to the  branches  use a bit of wire to coatbody volume. Wrap the body of the coat around  the colony and zip up. you might need to add support to the branch to hold the weight of the coat

A further step up
A framework with a  vapour permeable inner tent  (cotton?) over the comb  with a gathered openning at the bottom  then a gap and  a outer water proof  covering (nylon, plastic?)  would be an improvement over a hive.
You could even hang some extra sugar from the frame. inside the inner tent.

[Finski]

Remember a wooden hive has almost zero insulation. So the baseline is just shelter from rain

that is really far from true. The British knowledge about insulation is near zero. Soooory.

And who can nurse bees in the tree.
It is better take down, save the valuable brood and look in spring.

[windfall]

I suspect you see pretty decent snow around you? Building something to be left in place is likely to end in frustration and disappointment when snow and wind have their way.

Removal and putting it into some kind of box would seem the best bet. It doesn't have to be standard sized, just something to hold things till spring. Although standard would be nice if you could.

It is so hard to judge scale from a shot, but I am wondering about lining a cheap Styrofoam cooler with something like masonite. That would let you put a couple of blocks in to support the primary branch the combs are attached to so it continues to "hang" or even just cut notches in the wall of cooler to accomplish the same. They come in lots of sizes, Cheap and little time on your part....might well get lucky. Why not if the drive is short.

But I am a sucker for free and projects requiring some creative problem solving.

[BlueBee]

So Rick, what is the plan for these bees? 

[Scadsobees]

BlueBee...funny you ask!

I'm trying to learn how to hunt with my boys, and this isn't going to be possible with that going on.

I passed the opportunity on to our local club - no info, just situation.  I sent the details to the first beek to contact me.

He went this morning to get them, and somebody had taken them last night without asking (yeah, stole them) . :-x  I positive that I didn't accidentally include any location information, so hopefully it isn't on account of anything I may have let slip.

Rick

[BlueBee]

Wow.  Who would have thought that bees in mid September in Michigan would be such a hot commodity to steal! 

[D Coates]

If you've only got a few interested folks who've contacted you, send out an e-mail to them to guage their interest.  The one who took it probably won't hit you back or will suddenly no longer be interested.  Never heard of a hive getting taken like that before.