split pins vs embedded wire

hvac professor · February 11, 2012, 07:11:07 PM

this is my first overwinter season and I am installing new wax foundation sheets into old 10" frames. I was told by an experienced beek not to use the split pins to hold the foundation in place because when time for extraction they sometimes collapse, he said to wire them in. I found a how to install wire instead of split pin installation process that says to connect 24 volt transformer connections to the wires so they will melt into the new wax foundation. Although very familiar with electricity and transformers i can see this turning out to be a messy situation.
Will and experienced beeker help with this? Thank you kindly :-D

BlueBee · February 11, 2012, 08:30:53 PM

Are you going to use a 24VAC transformer from a furnace? It looks like they could output 20 to 40 watts depending on their VA rating. That should be plenty to embed a wire as long as the xformer doesn't burn up in the process. Burning up would seem like a real possibility to me. How much resistance is there really going to be in 5 feet of steel wire? A few ohms?

Say there is 5 Ohms. Ohm says V = IR (it's on one of my nucs) so I = V/R = 24/5 = 4.8 amps. That's almost 3x the current rating of a 40VA xformer. Seems like something would have to give in this case! You might need to add a current limiting resistor in series with the setup.

No I haven't tried this (I use plastic), but I do recall a similar question in the experimental section of this forum a while back. You might try searching in there. If I recall most people were using car batteries to embed the wires since a car battery won't short out pushing 4.8 amps of current. I also recall somebody using a doorbell transformer and a button to energize it! I think those things are only rated at 16VA so they should burn up even faster than a furnace xformer, but maybe if you just zap for a second or two, things don't get hot enough to burn up?

Good luck :)

iddee · February 11, 2012, 08:39:42 PM

Try the 2 amp setting on your battery charger. It is said to work well.

I purchased my transformer from Walter T. Kelly and it is next to perfection.

Kathyp · February 11, 2012, 08:48:10 PM

when i used foundation i used pins. never had a problem the bees attach everything to the frame anyway. the bigger issue is getting it into the frame properly and secured at the top.

hvac professor · February 12, 2012, 08:36:17 AM

it appears alot of beeks do not use wax foundation, but the feedback I hear @ plastic fondation has not been positive. It does make sense to me that when using pins to secure the wax foundation in place that certainly the bees will secure in place.
I have tried ti wire one frame but getting the wire to embedd completely in the wax as required will be a chore

iddee · February 12, 2012, 09:50:52 AM

""I have tried ti wire one frame but getting the wire to embedd completely in the wax as required will be a chore""

AS REQUIRED?? Says who? If it embeds 50% or more, I am satisfied. The bees will take care of it from there. The embedding is to hold it in place and straight. The bees will build right over it whether it is embedded or not.

hvac professor · February 12, 2012, 02:00:24 PM

I have 5 complete so far, I wred the frames with 28 gauge wire, put the wax foundation in place and secred it then connected battery charger. started on 6 volt and then moved to 12 for @ 10 seconds. I put a small piece of plywood on top of wax foundation to keep pressure down on wire and it worked pretty well.

ronwhite3030 · February 14, 2012, 01:50:34 AM

I use the 2 amp setting on a battery charger, it works like a champ