Queen is Dead – trying to figure out why?

[SarahM]

It seems like every time I post here, it's with a problem. =) And here I am again with another one and a question . . .

About three weeks ago, we did an artificial swarm with one of our hives. A week later, things looked pretty good, though there were a few queen cups.

Two weeks after the artificial swarm, there were two frames of eggs, and frames with larvae as well. But there were also both swarm cells and supercedure cells which we removed. (Since there were two frames of eggs, we figured that if the hive did end up swarming, the ones left behind would be able to raise up a new queen.) We also added a second hive body.

Today, nine days since the last inspection, I opened up the hive down to the first hive body, pulled out the first frame, and there was our queen down on the bottom board surrounded by about 10 bees.

At first I thought maybe she had fallen, but then discovered that she was dead. I am guessing that she died fairly recently since there were bees around her and she still felt pliable.

After discovering that, I inspected each frame in the hive to try to see what was going on. I was glad to see two supercedure cells with larvae in royal jelly (hopefully they'll be able to raise up a new queen!) Most of the frames in both hive bodies were drawn out, there were about two frames of a solid pattern of capped brood, but then only small, sporadic patches of larvae, and then even fewer eggs scattered around on two frames. (The hive was not honey- or pollen-bound either.)

I am really puzzled as to what happened . . . could we have injured her on our last inspection? Was she sick? Did she begin having a poor brood pattern so they killed her? (She was a new queen that we got last fall – so she wasn't old yet.)

Any ideas?


On a happier note, our other hive that this artificial swarm came from have requeened themselves! I happened to be at the right place at the right time the other day and saw the virgin queen return from her mating flight and enter the hive. I am quite anxious to open the hive in a few days and see how things are going!

[asprince]

There was something about her that they did not like. They know best.


Good Luck,

Steve

[yockey5]

I am thinking the bees knew the queen was failing and you just happened to interrupt the normal process of replacing her. Always be careful about destroying supercedure cells, they are there for a reason. JMO

[DoctorZ]

Save the queen's corpse and put in alcohol  to use as a swarm pheromone lure.

[AllenF]

As long as the workers can replace her, that is the only important thing.   As for her death, there would be no way to tell.

[FRAMEshift]

I am guessing that she died fairly recently since there were bees around her and she still felt pliable.

I happened to be at the right place at the right time the other day and saw the virgin queen return from her mating flight

Sarah, you have excellent powers of observation.  That's what it takes to be a really great beekeeper.

Your queen was probably killed as part of a supersedure.  No way to know why they didn't like her performance.  It wouldn't surprise me if your hive swarmed after you did the false swarm.  Still does not explain why your queen would be killed before the virgin was mated.

I remember your earlier posts about doing a false swarm.  I think it's a good idea to separate the queen from the foragers to reduce the chances of a swarm.  But none of that explains why your queen died.

[SarahM]

Thank you everyone for the input! It was appreciated.

It makes sense that they are superceding her . . . I don't know much about supercedure and didn't realize that the workers could/would actually kill the old queen. Either way, the hive is in the process of rearing a new queen, and I hope they are successful.

One question, though . . . if the old queen (who was introduced to the hive just this past fall) was failing or was just not a good queen, wouldn't there be a good possibility that her daughter will likewise be a poor queen? What should we be watching for to see if she is a good or a poor one? (other than a tight brood pattern?)

~ yockey5 – thanks for the recommendation about not removing supercedure cells! I won't be doing that again. Since shortly after the artificial swarm, the queen seemed to be doing well with two whole frames of eggs, I 'assumed' that maybe the bees were making supercedure cells just because. Live and learn. =) I'm glad that they made some new ones after I destroyed the old!

~ FRAMEshift – thank you for the encouragement! A question regarding the swarming . . . if the hive had swarmed after we did the false swarm, wouldn't the old queen have gone with them? Or would they swarm without the queen?

Thanks again everyone!

[FRAMEshift]

if the old queen (who was introduced to the hive just this past fall) was failing or was just not a good queen, wouldn't there be a good possibility that her daughter will likewise be a poor queen? What should we be watching for to see if she is a good or a poor one? (other than a tight brood pattern?)

It depends on why she was superceded.  Maybe she was injured.  We have a queen who is missing a middle leg on one side.  She is our best queen but we keep expecting that her hive will replace her.  So far, they have allowed her to stay.  Since your old queen was such a good layer, it's probably worth trying one of her daughters as well.  But all open mated queens are different since they come from  different fathers.

I 'assumed' that maybe the bees were making supercedure cells just because.

Some hives do make queen cells "just because".  They build them and then tear them down again. Maybe it's just to have a fallback plan.  But there is no reason to remove a queen cell unless you don't like the genetics of the queen in that hive and you want to replace the queen cell with another queen or another queen cell from a different hive.

~ FRAMEshift – thank you for the encouragement! A question regarding the swarming . . . if the hive had swarmed after we did the false swarm, wouldn't the old queen have gone with them? Or would they swarm without the queen?

Yes, the old queen  would have left with a swarm.  Was your old queen marked?  If so, then I was wrong about the swarm.  Unless there was a new queen that swarmed as or after your old queen was killed.  In a supercedure, the old queen would normally not be killed until there was a mated replacement for her.  It just seems to me that this hive really wanted to swarm for an extended period.