Split build up before winter

ApalacheeRiverFarms · July 31, 2012, 03:50:26 PM

I have the two splits from last week in five frame deep nucs. I'm gonna try something different and make these two deeps instead of my others that are a single deep plus a medium for honey (Georgia). I'm wondering if I feed the heck out of them, you think it's possible to draw out two deeps this year? My feeders hold two gallons each and I want to feed the best ratio to draw comb. I've heard 1:1 as well as even more dilute mixtures. Any ideas/recipes? I know it's supposed to be by weight... I'd like to mix up about 4 gallons in a five gallon bucket to feed them and another week hive I have. thanks guys.

They are at my home yard, the only two hives here now and there is a cotton field about a mile away that's about to bloom. the feeders I'll use when I get them in a full deep is the wood divided feeder from Brushy Mountain.

BlueBee · July 31, 2012, 04:01:20 PM

Are you talking about growing your nucs into a double decker NUC of 10 total deep frame or a double deep HIVE with a total of 20 frames?

5 frame splits this time of year would never fill double deep HIVES (20 frames) in Michigan; Georgia of coarse will be different. Need some local advice on this one.

ApalacheeRiverFarms · July 31, 2012, 04:09:16 PM

yeah, I'm sure not in MI. Yes, two full ten or maybe 8 frame deeps. Have thought about two going to two 8 frame deeps quite a bit. we will have warm weather into October.

AllenF · July 31, 2012, 09:28:16 PM

Yes, you can feed the crap out of them and they will make.

BlueBee · July 31, 2012, 09:57:35 PM

Allen are you saying a 5 frame split the last week of July will comb out and fill up a double deep hive (20 frames) before winter in GA?

David McLeod · July 31, 2012, 10:20:47 PM

I'm a little more cautious than Allen. Yes, a strong five frame nuc here in GA can pull comb on a double deep at this time of year if all goes well but you're slicing it thin (at least in central GA, south of Macon is a whole nother Georgia). Whatever the case here in GA at this time of year we still have time to get a five frame into shape for fall. It may be only a single deep with the outside frames full of nectar and a need for feed Nov through Jan but there still plenty of time if you keep the feed poured to them and you have a good queen. The queen will be your make or break point as she needs to hit the ground running and fill everything she can for those winter bees.
I'm taking a long hard look at my queens now and will replace any I have my doubts about. I want lots of winter bees and a queen that will come roaring out of January with a full box of brood.

BTW, I run an odd stack assortment. A shallow for pollen storage and to act as a slatted rack, a single deep and my mediums from there. They go into winter with a single medium full of honey. The queens will use the first medium as brood during the summer but it will be back filled in the fall.

AllenF · July 31, 2012, 10:27:49 PM

I think the hardest part is keeping the robbers out of the hive when you are feeding the hive. There is nothing else out there but to eat that sugar water.

David McLeod · July 31, 2012, 10:53:11 PM

X2 on the robbing. I've been fortunate with enough afternoon thunder storms to keep a little something coming in but we usually are SOL this time of year for a flow and if you put out sweets every bee in the neighborhood will do whatever they have to to get it.
The goldenrod flow is coming up, I saw my first blooms today, and hopefully you can get a good bit of that put up if we have enough moisture and a late frost.

ApalacheeRiverFarms · August 01, 2012, 12:49:37 AM

we have lots of cotton blooming nearby so I'm hoping that helps my bees and helps keep the robbers busy elsewhere.

BeeMaster2 · August 01, 2012, 05:58:45 AM

If you have cotton in bloom why would you try to feed them? They probably won't use the sugar water with a flow on.
Jim

GLOCK · August 01, 2012, 09:42:23 AM

I find that my splits and newly hived swarms will take suryp at any time even with a heavy flow so i'd feed they will build pretty fast.
Good luck.

David McLeod · August 01, 2012, 09:51:10 AM

I also see the small ones taking syrup even during a flow. It's as if they know to take the quickest route to get established. Even if they don't I would hate to see one fail because I at least didn't offer.

D Coates · August 01, 2012, 11:23:11 AM

Drawn comb or undrawn? Nectar is one thing especially for drawing comb but I'd be more concerned about pollen. You don't want them sliding into winter underpopulated (for a double deep) or on fumes pollen wise. In my neck of the woods I'd try to get them situated for overwintering as a 5-frame nuc or add another 5 frames on top for a stacked 10 frame nuc.

BeeMaster2 · August 01, 2012, 12:33:56 PM

Quote from: David McLeod on August 01, 2012, 09:51:10 AM
I also see the small ones taking syrup even during a flow. It's as if they know to take the quickest route to get established. Even if they don't I would hate to see one fail because I at least didn't offer.

Thanks for that input Dave and Glock. I will try it on a mating nuc I am setting up.
Jim

ApalacheeRiverFarms · August 01, 2012, 01:39:53 PM

I agree that especially with a new nuc, it doesn't have the foraging force to really build up on a nectar flow alone, especially when it's some distance away. There's also plenty of pollen to go around and they have some stored in a frame already. I have them on plastic foundation (waxed) because I don't have enough drawn to give them (thus the feeding to get as much drawn as possible even if they don't fill it all.

AllenF · August 01, 2012, 06:00:39 PM

Keep an eye on the syrup also. Keep fresh in there with all this heat.

Intheswamp · August 01, 2012, 08:12:12 PM

Quote from: AllenF on August 01, 2012, 06:00:39 PM
Keep an eye on the syrup also. Keep fresh in there with all this heat.

Maybe add a little ascorbic acid/vitamin-c to the syrup to help slow down fermentation?

Ed

ApalacheeRiverFarms · August 01, 2012, 08:59:22 PM

Good points. I use a 20oz coke bottles with three small holes in the lid inverted through a tight fitting hole in the migratory top with a 3/4" outer spacer to give them room to get to it.

They aren't using much syrup yet and I saw that one queen was released today and laying. The other queen needed an assist. The paper they used to keep the candy in the cage had blocked the hole enough so workers could get in but she couldn't get out. With a little help fe me, she climbed out and went to work. they seemed to be putting away some darker nectar too... Not cotton... Crape myrtle?

On another note... Pigweed is a nightmare to me, but it does produce a lot of pollen the bees seem to love this time of year.

AllenF · August 01, 2012, 09:20:23 PM

With queen cages, never place the candy end facing down. Just to keep it from getting blocked where the queen can not get out.

ApalacheeRiverFarms · August 01, 2012, 11:30:40 PM

It didn't get blocked like that, the problem with this instance could have happened either way. All is well though