I dropped the the ball on swarm control

dprater · April 25, 2013, 06:36:45 AM

This is my second year and it's falling apart. Started out with two booming hives that I had to start feeding in Nov. and they grew too fast. #1 hive swarmed two times the end of Feb., I caught them. Now one of those swarms has swarmed, caught them, and the second swarm is about to swarm.
The # 2 hive from last year has swarmed once that I know of, caught them. I also did a split on one hive too make more room. My mistake is I just added undrawn suppers and not expand the brood area. (ha ha I've been reading up on it now). So now I have 7 hives 3 thats in one 8 frame med and I'm out of wood work.
Can I combine two of the swarm using the news paper trick? Thinking out of the box but what about removing the queen from the swarm and putting the bees back in the same box with the news paper trick? Laughter is ok on this one.

Thanks Danny

RHBee · April 25, 2013, 08:21:08 AM

Danny,
No laughter here, I ended up in the same predicament. I did what I thought was right. I added more room, I split colonies, I made false swarms. I guess what I should have done is actively removed queen cells. I don't know. I just know that next year that I'm gonna have more box's made. I'm still playing catch up.

Intheswamp · April 25, 2013, 09:46:31 AM

Last year was my first summer. Started out with 3 hives...one that I built up from a nuc and two established colonies. Out of those hives I think I ended up with five swarms. Either I have simply missed them or this year my swarming is much less....I've caught one swarm (only one that I've seen) from my yard. Definitely not saying I haven't had other swarms but I don't see a hive that looks weaker than before. Do you use queen excluders? Did you feed them much this spring?

In regards to combining some of the single box colonies...what about selling them as swarm nucs and buying new woodenware with the proceeds...lemonade out of lemons? :) That still doesn't help honey production, though,...combining would be the fastest way to build up the work forces in fewer hives while possibly freeing up some woodenware.

Best wishes on your outcome, whichever path you take on this,

Ed

10framer · April 25, 2013, 10:41:12 AM

even if you combine them you are still way short on equipment. the main flows probably haven't even started yet.
the easiest fix is to build some nucs and bank the queens then combine everything back into two hives. even then you need more supers. 4 mediums high is just a brood chamber plus a super. if you have tulip poplars and privet near you you could easily get those hives up to 7 mediums tall. depending on where you are you may have sourwood and tupelo too. there may be other things in the carolinas i don't know about. anyway my point is that you simply don't have enough equipment for two hives. buy some wooden ware and get to work! the big flows are going to be turning on pretty soon in my area and yours should be too.
on the other hand, congratulations on the fast build up. i wish i could have quadrupled my hives already this year.

Intheswamp · April 25, 2013, 11:59:20 AM

10framer is making a very valid point regarding the amount of woodenware that you have on hand. I use all 8-frame mediums and what I've settled into is devoting three of the boxes to the brood chamber and trying to have three boxes for honey supers. This should give me enough honey supers to store ~75 pounds of honey which is what my one productive hive made me last year but what I think may be on the high side of normal production volume for my local area. And, as you've already learned, you need extra boxes for hiving swarms or splits in. I also like to have extra boxes for covering feeders with, though the use of these can double for the unexpected swarm, heavy honey flow, or whatever.

...all this reminds me that I need to get to building and painting some more equipment!! :)

Ed

Bees In Miami · April 25, 2013, 01:48:50 PM

dprater: If you managed to keep all those swarms and splits queen-right, count your blessings, and order more gear. I too expanded quite quickly (quicker than I expected or planned!), and got caught short on gear. Though it hurts the pocket up front, you can re-coup more expenses than you think with a bumper honey crop. If you keep giving them more space as they need it, your swarming problems should go away, too. Key word...'should'. :-D Sounds like you've got super happy bees! X:X

dprater · April 25, 2013, 05:40:32 PM

Looks like everyone has or had this problem with the swarm thing. Maybe I should look at it as I do have happy bees. I did not give the whole pic. about wood ware, I'm out of tops and bottom boards (I build my own) but I do have 16 med. suppers with foundation in all ready to go. Just putting them on top as I have found out is not the answer. I going out right now and make more room in the brood chambers. 2 of my first swarms are 2 and 3 high wall to wall.
I was a little overwhelmed yesterday I feel better today about it all, thanks.

But I could combine the smaller swarms right?

Danny

Intheswamp · April 25, 2013, 06:17:42 PM

Sounds like you're in pretty good shape. :)

In this case you could take one or two of those honey supers and put a devider in it to make two medium nucs and use them to grow bees and comb to feed to your production hives using a couple of those swarm colonies. Take a frame of brood about to emerge out of them all along, put into a production hive and replace the frame with a frame of foundation for the nuc to draw out. You would also have a couple of backup queens in case you needed them. It's more involved than simply that and I haven't tried it myself, but just wanted to throw that out there for food for thought. :)

Ed

RHBee · April 25, 2013, 10:51:30 PM

Well I had another swarm in the back yard today. Got them in a hive, gave them a couple of frames of open brood to anchor them. The trouble is that they are my queen mother hive. I had a couple of queens banked that I got from Charley Harper 8 days ago so I took the opportunity to find them a home. From the mother hive I took the best queen cell and put it in a 3 frame mateing nuc. I must have destroyed 10 queen cells today.
There has to be a better way.

10framer · April 25, 2013, 11:17:49 PM

sounds like they need room ray. i went to my place today and the tulip poplars will all be blooming within a week. if you guys have similar conditions up there it's about to really be on.
mine are working clover pretty hard right now but tulip poplars produce a lot more nectar than clover. privet should come in right behind the poplars and if you're lucky sumac will follow that. the next 8 weeks should be busy.

RHBee · April 25, 2013, 11:48:58 PM

Quote from: 10framer on April 25, 2013, 11:17:49 PM
sounds like they need room ray.

I've been keeping a look out for that. The hive that swarmed had a partially drawn super on top. Maybe 40% drawn or so. I dunno.

10framer · April 25, 2013, 11:56:32 PM

are these the russians? they have a reputation for being swarmy but someone will say that about any variety.

RHBee · April 26, 2013, 12:14:49 AM

Quote from: 10framer on April 25, 2013, 11:56:32 PM
are these the russians? they have a reputation for being swarmy but someone will say that about any variety.

Yep, Russians. Big swarm at least 5lbs or so. Lots of QC's. Still pretty big hive after the swarm. That makes 18 colonies now. Steady building more stuff.

dprater · April 26, 2013, 05:57:22 AM

Instead of growing one of the new swarms I think I will try some form of what Intheswamp is talking about. Having a queen on hand and making comb sounds like something several beeks do.

On the hive that just swarmed the third super (all meds.) was full of honey 3/4 caped, I moved it to the top and put to top one with frames of honey between #2 and #4, I may need to add another on top of this by next week?

Tulip poplars are about to take off here in SC, I have one in my yard thats 50 ft tall and the blooms are starting to open.

Thanks Danny

tecumseh · April 26, 2013, 07:49:46 AM

a snip...
Looks like everyone has or had this problem with the swarm thing.

tecumseh....
now I ain't sure why this is a problem. on the other hand if you have bees and they don't do this from time to time.... now that would be a problem.

for myself... I never feel any closer to GOD than I do when I stand right smack dab in the middle of a swarm that has just issued from a large and robust and healthy hive. I don't pretend I enjoy seeing the swarm go but I wouldn't give up that particular feeling and knowledge that that particular hive had be ULTIMATELY successful for double my average honey crop.

Intheswamp · April 26, 2013, 10:12:51 AM

Quote from: tecumseh on April 26, 2013, 07:49:46 AM
<snip>

for myself... I never feel any closer to GOD than I do when I stand right smack dab in the middle of a swarm that has just issued from a large and robust and healthy hive. I don't pretend I enjoy seeing the swarm go but I wouldn't give up that particular feeling and knowledge that that particular hive had be ULTIMATELY successful for double my average honey crop.

I'm just a newbee, but last year I went through Swarm Introduction 101, 102, and 103 all in a matter of a couple of weeks...I had the privilege(?) of standing in the mist of several swarms. It is an awesome sight to behold and to be part of, no doubt,...a great example of God's creation.

My mentor had two swarms to issue about the same time the other day. From what he said, the swarms seemed to meander around the yard a bit. As they were flying their paths crossed and suddenly they became one swarm. He said that it was one of the biggest, blackest cloud of bees that he'd ever seen! I could tell talking with him that it really impressed him. Here's a shot of them after landing in a cedar tree...

Ed

D Semple · April 26, 2013, 10:28:44 AM

:lau: :lau: :lau:

I can laugh, I made the same mistake last year of when spring came extra early, except I starting with 12 hives. Ended up catching and hiving something like 18 swarms from my own hives all in the span of about two weeks. On top of that swarms were popping all over town, somedays I'd gather 2 or 3 on my way home from work only to get home and find 2 or 3 more in my own trees. :drowning: :drowning: Many a night I was pushing dark getting them collected and had the neighbors holding the ladders for me.

bees are way worser than rabbits regards

Don

10framer · April 26, 2013, 11:15:28 AM

Quote from: Ray Bayless on April 26, 2013, 12:14:49 AM
Quote from: 10framer on April 25, 2013, 11:56:32 PM
are these the russians? they have a reputation for being swarmy but someone will say that about any variety.

Yep, Russians. Big swarm at least 5lbs or so. Lots of QC's. Still pretty big hive after the swarm. That makes 18 colonies now. Steady building more stuff.

5 pounds of bees with the "i just swarmed attitude" should make a pretty productive hive. if there are that many left in the old hive i wouldn't complain.

duck · April 26, 2013, 02:54:10 PM

make nucs! I made 10 nucs last weekend, had a really strong hive with at least 3 cells on nearly every frame. busted that one apart and made 10 nucs and combined with afterswarms to strengthen their numbers.

RC · April 26, 2013, 04:14:20 PM

Don't feel lonesome, I've added extra room and made splits and I think every hive has swarmed anyway. I caught 3 swarms of my own and from last weeks inspection, it looks like I missed at least 3 more. Thankfully, there's a good flow going on right now, maybe I'll make some honey anyhow.
I started out with two hives last year and am up to 14 now. And I have at least two hives I could split.The way these things are multiplying, I'll have a truckload going to the almonds next year. :-D