Is it wise to cut out now

WorkerB · March 29, 2014, 09:45:37 PM

Hi all. I am a complete newbee so go gentle please
I have a colony that have set up residence in my wall cavity early summer. Rather than exterminate I am going to set up a back yard hive - in fact i'm quite looking forward to the new hobby.
I have constructed a double hive (2x10 frame deep) that i am about to paint and intend to (simply - haha) cut out the internal gyprock house wall and place the comb into the frames, scoop as many bees as I can into the box.
This raises several questions for me.

1. Should this be done at night or when the bees are out in daylight?

2. When I have relocated the bees, should I place the new hive outside by the existing entrance which i then block up? If so, can i place the box on the ground? ( the entrance us about 2.5 m above ground on a sheer brick wall so suspending the box will be a challenge but not impossible).
Alternatively, should I mount the box inside the house with the entrance at the hole in the wall to capture all the bees then after a while (how long?) relocate the hive outside at night.

3. Can I relocate the box in the back yard where I intend it to be permanently located (about 25m away behind a shed well out of sight of the original entrance) or do I need to do the inch-by-inch relocation which will take months as the house is a holiday house and I only get there at most once a month?

4. Should I do this now (early autumn but the bees are still quite actively foraging) or wait until they are hibernating (do they do this?) in winter or wait until activity picks up in spring?

I would appreciate any advice on this "madness" as my wife would put it.

I live in Adelaide and the house is at Moonta Bay, near the top of the Yorke Peninsula in SA.

Thanks
Andrew

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iddee · March 29, 2014, 10:23:41 PM

Do it shortly after the spring equinox.
Place the hive on a table or similar outside just below their house entrance.
Cover the hole where you did the removal inside the house.
Leave the original entrance open for a few days.
They will go in and remove the spills and drippings of honey and place it in the hive.
Leave them for one week or more. One month will be fine.
Move them to the permanent location at night and block the entrance, but don't close it.
You want them to go in and out, but having to bypass an obstacle.
A piece of plywood leaning against the front, a few small tree branches, a handful of grass, ETC.
Just enough for them to realize a change and reorient.
Watch a few of JPthebeeman's videos on utube during the winter while waiting. He explains the process well.

Jim134 · March 30, 2014, 08:03:22 AM

Maybe you should put your location in stead of being

Location:
Hopelessly Lost

I see you posted on down under BEEKEEPING can you tell us where you located in the world ???

BEE HAPPY Jim 134 :)

BeeMaster2 · March 30, 2014, 08:25:02 AM

Jim,
It is his second post. He probably hasn't even noticed the hopelessly lost yet. Maybe you did not realize it but it comes across as an attack.
Andrew,
Go into the profile tab and add either Adelaide or Moonta Bay, Yorke Peninsula South Australia. To. Your location. Welcome to the Beemaster. Bee careful, beekeeping is very additive.
Jim

awootton · March 30, 2014, 10:49:41 PM

Hi Andrew, I did a similar cutout 3 months ago from neighbours eaves, with relocation to my garden and so have a couple of comments to add to iddee's good advice. I too was largely a newbee so I enlisted a more experienced helper - this was great, very reassuring to have someone else present dressed in a bee suit. A cutout should probably be considered quite an advanced beekeeping procedure so don't take it too lightly.

It's very messy and you will get honey and wax all over the floor. As you are attacking from inside, you will need dropsheets. You should wear rubber gloves rather than nice leather beekeeping gloves as everything gets sticky. You will need to strap the combs into empty frames using elastic bands - probably 3 of these per frame. As your colony will have been in situ for 6 months or more, there will probably be 10 or more combs, so you should have a couple of brood boxes with empty frames available. You will need something to cut the combs out (breadknife and/or hive tool). Make sure you have a smoker going.

It's going to take a good couple of hours or more and you want to tackle this in daylight so you can see what you're doing. Also I think bees at night are a no no - very grumpy. Plus some of the foragers are safely out in the field in the day and therefore not home to attack you!

Once they are in the box with the queen it's plain sailing. Although you will hear a lot of stuff about 3meters or 3miles, I successfully moved my colony 25m without too much trouble. I used a strategy I read of somewhere that confining them for 2 to 3 days will cause them to reorient. I closed them up at night and kept them locked up indoors for the whole of the next day (with a screened top rather than the lid so they didn't overheat). This was more traumatic for me than them, as I was very nervous of them overheating and spent the day obsessively checking them. Then released next morning in new location - some of the foragers returned to hang around the original site, but all returned to the new hive in the evening - this went on for 2 or 3 days but afaik no bees ended up lost and dying.

Since then the hive has flourished and I have even had some honey taken from a comb removed in gradually switching them to conventional foundation. It's been a blast and I'm half tempted to offer to come and help you as it's all such fun.

Good luck, Andrew (and by the way my partner thinks I'm mad too, but has become quite attached to the bees as they have sensibly restricted themselves to stinging me not her!)

iddee · March 30, 2014, 11:20:49 PM

Very good post. I will say, tho, DO NOT band honeycomb into the frames. Only brood comb should be put into the hive. Honey can be harvested, fed back later, or placed out at a distance to be robbed. Honey comb is too drippy and too heavy to band into the frames.

yantabulla · March 31, 2014, 12:32:08 AM

Just a reminder for the Aussies here.

It is irresponsible & illegal to leave honey out in the open for bees to rob.

Yanta

WorkerB · March 31, 2014, 03:21:47 AM

Iddee,
Thanks for the quick response.
That also gives me plenty of time for research. I just hope the little blighters don't make a huge nest in the meantime.

Jim and Jim,

Thanks for the advice, i'm too thick skinned to take offense. Found the profile settings ( not available thru tapatalk app). I'm located in South Australia.

Cheers
Andrew

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WorkerB · March 31, 2014, 06:01:43 AM

Thanks awootton. I will definitely heed your advice on the precautions for the mess. I have to keep in the good books with SWMBO. I will tackle the transfer on a sunny day too to avoid as many attackers as possible.
You mention switching them to foundation. How is this done? Do I put say half the recovered comb in the top box with the queen in the bottom box with blank foundation separating the two with a queen excluder and move more of the recovered comb up over time? I suppose when the larvae have all hatched I then remove the recovered comb and extract the honey?
Do the bees recycle wax?

iddee, do the bees have honey comb separate to brood comb?

Yanta, point taken. I'm learning every day!!

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iddee · March 31, 2014, 06:12:20 AM

Yes, they are separate, but only in the fact they keep the brood all together. It will not be 2 separate pieces of comb. You will not be able to make a 100% separation, but just don't try to frame in large sections of honey. It will drip and kill bees, and fall out of frames from sheer weight.

Yanta, illegal?? Maybe in Aus. Irresponsible?? That I can't agree with. If it is carrying disease, it likely would have killed the hive and be robbed out anyway, so feeding would not have made a large difference. Comparing that to throwing out a lot of good honey, I would think the gamble would be well worth the chances taken.

yantabulla · March 31, 2014, 07:27:51 AM

I'm sick of dealing with AFB Iddee.

iddee · March 31, 2014, 07:56:53 AM

Understandable. As is said often, beekeeping is totally local. I have had AFB once in 38 years. If it were prevalent here, I would feel exactly like you do.

Lone · March 31, 2014, 08:34:03 AM

Iddee, I think Yanta's point is that the reason it is illegal to open feed is because it attracts bees from everywhere, and being in close proximity to your bees they can potentially share AFB. Also, honey is often the AFB carrier, so if it is infected, can then infect other local bee populations. One problem that has been recognised is non-beekeepers who feed parrots on shop-bought honey.

I have heard there are a lot of AFB problems in some areas of NSW, so it is good to have Yanta's advice to keep us honest. What I don't know is... is there a problem with feeding a hive's honey back to it inside the hive? I do understand there could be a problem if you've run it through your extractor and perhaps others of your hives carry AFB.

Welcome to WorkerB and awootton. WorkerB, you'll find locals have the best advice on over wintering where you live. You might like to get in touch with your closest bee club, or ask around to find a beekeeper to interrogate. I am guessing you get pretty chilly there.

Lone

iddee · March 31, 2014, 08:52:41 AM

Lone, I understand him completely. That's why I said if AFB were prevalent here, I would feel the same. As you stated, local is best. All beekeeping is local.

Lone · March 31, 2014, 09:11:55 AM

Hey, anytime we've had a scare I just blame you, Iddee. It's AMERICAN foulbrood, afterall :-D

iddee · March 31, 2014, 09:14:32 AM

England sent you all their convicts, we had to send you something to match.
:evil: :evil: :-D :-D

BeeMaster2 · March 31, 2014, 12:51:17 PM

Now fight nicely. :ninja:

iddee · March 31, 2014, 01:54:56 PM

This ain't fightin', this is luvin'. Of course, sometimes it's hard to tell the difference. :fishhit:

awootton · March 31, 2014, 11:14:14 PM

Quote from: WorkerB on March 31, 2014, 06:01:43 AM
You mention switching them to foundation. How is this done? Do I put say half the recovered comb in the top box with the queen in the bottom box with blank foundation separating the two with a queen excluder and move more of the recovered comb up over time? I suppose when the larvae have all hatched I then remove the recovered comb and extract the honey?
Do the bees recycle wax?

What you suggest will work fine. In order not to have to find the queen (I am still looking!), here's what I would do:
Priority 1 is to get the bees established and have them attach the wild comb to the frame bars - I wouldn't use the queen excluder here, but you probably do want to have some comb in both boxes, because they may ignore the a super full of foundation.
Priority 2 is to get some foundation drawn out, so you want the bees in expansion mode (which should be fine as you are planning this for spring).
Priority 3 is to move the bees off the wild comb on to the foundation - here the QE will come in handy. Sort the combs into the 2 boxes. Isolate the queen in the brood box with the drawn comb (you can probably do this by just chasing all the bees into the one box with heavy smoking before adding the QE), then allow the brood in the wild comb to hatch over the following 3 weeks. Crush and strain any honey and replace with foundation!
My understanding is that the bees do not recycle the wax, so melt it and turn it into furniture polish or candles.