Is bee venom stronger at times?

Dallasbeek · April 17, 2014, 10:21:24 AM

I've read some of the strings about varied reactions to bee stings depending on where one is stung, building resistance or sensitivity and so on, but my question is whether a bee's venom may be stronger at times. I've been stung a couple of times by bees from queenless hives and my reaction seems much worse from these stings than from "happy" bees. Yesterday I peeked around the corner to see what the bees were doing at a hive I'm requeening. Without warning, one popped my on the front of my scalp. Within hours the whole side of my head, down to my left cheek, was swollen. My left eye is swollen almost closed. Two or three days before, when searching for the old queen, I was stung twice, once through a nitrile glove and once through my jeans, and there was no lasting reaction. Has any research been done on this, or is this something others have noticed?

Gary

iddee · April 17, 2014, 11:37:55 AM

Much research has been done. Not only will the venom from each bee be different, but your body will react differently with each sting, even if it is the same venom. That's why it is recommended that you carry an epi-pen. You never know what the next one is going to do.

Dallasbeek · April 17, 2014, 12:14:47 PM

Thanks iddee. It just seemed to me that when a colony is particularly riled up, the venom gets stronger. Even when the stinger is removed quickly, the reaction is greater than another sting when the bees are not real angry. Like if they're having a bad day, they want to be sure your day is bad, too.

By the way, I've been admiring your signature ever since I started on this bog. I'm looking for one that is as clever. When I taught school, on exams I used the quote from the Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam ("the moving finger writes....") but haven't found one appropriate for this forum. Maybe something from my legal career will turn up.

Let's see what others might contribute on this bee venom topic. I found the related strings interesting -- ones from several years ago. I have 3 nephews wanting to start keeping bees in Minnesota and I've told them they have to be prepared for some pain as well as the pleasure of beekeeping.

Gary

sc-bee · April 17, 2014, 12:22:06 PM

And some say when a bee is on different sources it is different. I have heard folks say privet is one of those that hurts more. Some stings I have fester like a fire ant some don't. Also depends on how good she gets you. Some swell a little some get that indented hole :bee:

10framer · April 17, 2014, 12:41:40 PM

it always seems like the ones that hit you at full speed burn a little more. i always figured they got better penetration because of the momentum and injected into more sensitive tissue. it could just be because they catch me by surprise, though.

flyboy · April 17, 2014, 01:36:57 PM

A gentleman and his wife came to our bee club to give a talk on Apiatherapy or bee sting therapy.

He does it for his MS. He said that his wife directs the stinger to the acupuncture points on the meridian lines that go down the areas that go numb with the MS. They seem to believe that this amplifies the results of the stings.

They said that there is speculation that this is how acupuncture started up in the first place. The speculation is that PPL discovered that being stung in certain places could be felt in distant places.

Personally I went to a TCM guy and when he put the needles in I could feel the meridian lines activate, about one or two feet either side of the point. It's as if they lit up in my minds eye. Hard to explain. One AP that he needled caused me to see (My eyes were closed so it was in my mind's eye) a bright orange light go from just below my navel where he put the needle, into the area just above my male organ. When I asked him he said it was because I have strong chi. I bike a lot, so maybe that is why.

AP are basically areas where there is a confluence of important nerves and muscles. You can get devices that will locate these points because they have different electrical properties than the surrounding skin. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Body-Clock-Stimplus-Electro-acupuncture-No-Needles-/221168646876?pt=UK_BOI_Medical_Lab_Equipment_Medical_Equipment_Instruments_ET&hash=item337eadbadc Some of the points can be quite sensitive and if hit hard enough can result in death.

Santa Caras · April 17, 2014, 03:15:32 PM

I've read that with young house bees, their venom and stingers arent as developed. That as they get older,and become foragers, their venom and stingers become stronger. So following that line of thought..... the bees that have overwintered and aged over the winter, can have some of the strongest venom. Just what I'd read....not for sure if true. Dont care to put it to the test! :shock:

Dallasbeek · April 17, 2014, 08:29:57 PM

Great stuff. 10framer, there may be a lot to that. The bee that hit me last night came out of nowhere -- hit hard with no buzzing around.

Flyboy, I understand about chi. My wife and I have practiced t'ai chi for 8 years, the last six months with a master from Taiwan who heads Cheng Ming USA. Before, we had an American teacher. Now our teacher explains how chi is affected by our doing the form and we are learning much more.

Joe D · April 17, 2014, 08:56:20 PM

Gary, Sunday afternoon one got me on the scalp line right side. My right eye is back to normal today. I think it maybe like Sant Caras said, I have gotten stung three times already this year and all were good ones. Got one today on the thumb, it is swelling now. I should have known better anyway. I was opening their entrance, had on a jacket, no smoke, when the entrance got bigger so did the amount of bees coming out and they didn't seem that happy.

Joe

Grandpa Jim · April 17, 2014, 09:47:46 PM

Here is a student that did a study, getting stung and ranking the pain... sting pain study

Got stung 2 times on the nostril this week. It was painful and it was like pulling the flush handle on the sinuses for about 10 minutes....but did not swell at all. Not ready to try ALL the other places......Jim

Wolfer · April 17, 2014, 10:34:56 PM

It's a fact that the first few stings of the year hurt worse and swell worse. Later in the season they hardly bother me at all.
I've always thought it was because spring bees are older. Recently found out that after about 20 stings you build somewhat of an immunity.

flyboy · April 18, 2014, 12:57:53 AM

I am guessing a bit here but according to what the guy who was doing apiatherapy said, the bee stings actually contain a potent antibiotic which to me says that the stings may have a therapeutic effect. We all after all have certain low level infections in our body that grind away constantly and add to the aging process. Just a thought. The upside of a not so nice event as a sting.

Spear · April 18, 2014, 04:16:03 AM

I had a mild infection brewing in my finger a while ago... a day after I was stung on that hand the infection was just about gone. I also suffer from heel spurs and have very painful feet at times and since I started beekeeping and have been stung a few times the pain in my feet is not so bad. That being said I was stung on sunday just on the skin around my finger nail and burned like fire! Had to dunk my hand in cold water - I have started to keep a bucket close by as it sometimes gets rather sticky working in the hives - but the swelling was minimal.

10framer · April 18, 2014, 10:19:53 AM

Quote from: Spear on April 18, 2014, 04:16:03 AM
I had a mild infection brewing in my finger a while ago... a day after I was stung on that hand the infection was just about gone. I also suffer from heel spurs and have very painful feet at times and since I started beekeeping and have been stung a few times the pain in my feet is not so bad. That being said I was stung on sunday just on the skin around my finger nail and burned like fire! Had to dunk my hand in cold water - I have started to keep a bucket close by as it sometimes gets rather sticky working in the hives - but the swelling was minimal.

under the fingernail ranks as the worst sting ever for me. the intensity is amazing and it hurts for a while.

RHBee · April 18, 2014, 10:34:59 AM

I'm of the opinion that it is all about the delivery and how long before you remove the stinger.

sc-bee · April 18, 2014, 11:06:26 AM

With all the talk about building up immunity don't think that after hundreds of stings you can't be one sting away from LALA land. Sometimes it goes in the opposite direction quickly. Know of a guy who kept bees for decades, stung hundreds of times, forgot to zip his veil and took a couple on the neck. woke up in ER. At that time he was waiting a trip to the doctor to take a round of test to see if he should beekeep anymore. It could have been the delivery in the neck close to the head (brain) that did it?

Dallasbeek · April 18, 2014, 01:22:24 PM

Last year my bees were real defensive. One chased me about 50 tards and stung me on the neck just over the carotid artery. I had a minimal reaction to that one. I guess we're all just trying to understand this sting thing. Something we all have in common LOL

I have say I've learned a lot since I got on this forum. There's a world of knowledge here. Thanks, Beemaster, for hosting us.

Gary

sc-bee · April 18, 2014, 02:16:48 PM

The one that hurt me worse was the little indented cleft between the top lip and nose. If they had a crying icon here I would use it because it brought tears too my eyes..... literally.

rbinhood · April 20, 2014, 10:35:04 AM

If you want one to remember wait till one of those little ladies makes the trip up inside your nose and plants that little stinger there.....that is a real eye opening experience.

10framer · April 20, 2014, 01:11:35 PM

Quote from: rbinhood on April 20, 2014, 10:35:04 AM
If you want one to remember wait till one of those little ladies makes the trip up inside your nose and plants that little stinger there.....that is a real eye opening experience.

they say that's the worst place. i'm hoping i never find out.