Michigan loses the farming act for beekeeping.

[BlueBee]

I'll be watching to see how quickly your Republican Governor, your Republican super majority Senate, and your Republican controlled House of Reps take to reverse what your commission of 100% Republicans ruled. :laugh:  I'm sure the big money supporters down in Bloomfield Hills won't mind 4999 chickens taking over their neighborhood. :lau: 

If worst comes to worst, you just might have to go to a city council meeting and meet your neighbors. 

[danno]

I'll be watching to see how quickly your Republican Governor, your Republican super majority Senate, and your Republican controlled House of Reps take to reverse what your commission of 100% Republicans ruled. :laugh:  I'm sure the big money supporters down in Bloomfield Hills won't mind 4999 chickens taking over their neighborhood. :lau: 

If worst comes to worst, you just might have to go to a city council meeting and meet your neighbors. 

Listen up blueboy THE RIGHT TO FARM HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH 4999 CHICKEN IN THE CITY.   IT WAS NOT WRITTEN SO YOU COULD HAVE BEE'S IN TOWN.   Its obvious why it was dropped.  Its needs to be reinstated with changes so it will work the way it was intended.   I dont live in the city.   Not even close to one so I dont deal with any city council.  As for you usual "republican" crap.   Michigan has 83 counties.  In the last election Obama took 20 of them and Romney took 63.  3/4 of the state doesn't agree with you, Obama, Carl Levin or Debbie Stab-a-cow

[Better.to.Bee.than.not]

I drove around today buying plants/etc. for the gardens, etc. and as I drove around, just around 23 mi and romeo plank/etc even and other places...I would see farms. and then I would see homes....easily within 1/4 mi more than 8 of them...and I kept thinking to myself all those farms....all those greenhouses, and people who have been there and doing what they have been doing for quite possibly decades upon decades...are all now possibly at risk of some retard in a office somewhere or on some counsel, deciding, possibly because they or one of their friends or relatives just bought property some where next to one of these places, of being just screwed over. We know it won't happen immediately..... They don't do things like that. They lurk in the background until they pounce. first on one farmer, after making up all sorts of things and tons of other 'infractions' they have made to find pretty much anyone guilty of something when they want it. And making it sound like that person is unreasonable. But then another, and then another.
  Don't leave us private people or people in the city, under a bus Danno.... I know there is a much bigger picture here, and yes I agree, it involves a lot, seriously with people out of city proper... but we need protected also, and we all need each others support. We simply cannot allow 'the possibility' of them screwing any of us over by ambiguity imo.

[danno]

I have always believed in safety in numbers.   Contact your rep. on this issue.  I already did last week.   If you live in a city, talk to you city council.  In the last few years quite a few BIG cities have allowed a couple of colonies.  Use this info in your favor.  There is alot of good info with a few years of history to present to them.   Dont look for loop holes to get your agenda through because sooner or later they get closed. 

[Better.to.Bee.than.not]

I never really looked at it as a loophole. I looked at it as it should be meant to be. Small farms and farmers needing protection. And that is how it was pitched when it was made surely. Some may view 'small farms' somehow as only being people outside the city limits. some may view it as something completely different. this is how they work... right now they are trying to define it as someone who doesn't have 8 houses within a 1/4 mi of the farm evidently. And they will certainly attempt to get us to each divide and separate ourselves into separate interest groups to not stand together, so they can pick us off separately. It would be unwise to allow them to do that, imo.
  We have 10 million people in michigan... Honestly how many really have a problem with the way things were you figure?

This is being pushed in a large part by big farming without a doubt. in 2011 according to this site:
http://www.agclassroom.org/kids/stats/michigan.pdf

michigan has 10 million acres of farming, and 56,000 farmers. yet the ave farm size is 182 acres..... give me a break.... that means the many of those who have less than that 182 acres are being offset by the much fewer of those who have a heck of a lot more.

[danno]

I agree completely.   The loophole I'm talking about is inside city limits.   I have not heard back.from my rep.  as of yet so I sent another email today and will again on Friday if necessary.

[Better.to.Bee.than.not]

The Email idea is a good one, and I'll 'bee' suggesting it to the Tea Party groups in the area as well as spreading word at farmer's markets and such too. I hope small farmers make little labels and put it right on their products, for that matter, to let their customers know too.
  If the people who have 4,999 chickens in the backyard of their neighbors want to do the same and be on the opposing side, then so be it.....I'm guessing there are far more who do not have neighbors doing that though frankly.

[BlueBee]

michigan has 10 million acres of farming, and 56,000 farmers. yet the ave farm size is 182 acres..... give me a break....

LOL.  Better Bee have you ever been north of 23 mile :laugh:  I don't recall seeing too many 182 acre farms in Metro Detroit either. :lau:   There's a reason for that ya know.

As the tax man raises the taxable value on your Metro Detroit acres, the Farmers and Nurserymen pretty much have to sell out to developers (for a nice profit) and move further out where land prices are lower if they want to continue farming.  Bordine's moved their massive greenhouse operations all the way out to Grand Blanc because of the high taxes in Oakland Co.    

As for the RTF act, if I was a realist (yep that's me) then at best I would expect the RTF act to be re-codified to reflect the original intent of the law; protecting rural farms from city slickers moving in and then complaining (as Danno so eloquently pointed out).  I don't think there's a snowballs chance in Naples of State law overriding local city ordinances anymore.  So Danno and I will probably be allowed to go about our merry ways (outside city limits), while you're probably going to have to start going to city council meetings.  Oh, to be a fly on the wall  ;)

I'm telling you though, it's the chickens that are driving the cities nuts, not the bees.  The city cops just evicted some chickens across the street from me last week.  They had guns drawn and everything.    

[GSF]

Bluebee, you have to be careful when approaching chickens. Aren't they poisonous? I always carry my gun when we gather eggs :-D

Folks ought to buy a bunch of gienies(sp) and turn them loose. That'll give the a real reason to complain.

[Better.to.Bee.than.not]

have you even been out of your mothers basement? Who said anything about 182 acre farms being south of 23 mi, or it making a difference? you make no sense at all.... so go ahead and laugh all you want, but you only amuse yourself from your simplicity.

You can expect whatever you want to expect. what you expect means nothing. we're here to help ensure it goes the way we think it should, and in favor of beeks who do no harm to anyone. Most of my hives are out of the city also, it isn't the point. I do still have them at my home, and I still do not think people should be forced to not be able to raise their own food. If the issue is merely the chickens then they can stop their current BS, and work with just preventing people from having 4,999 chickens and make you happy.
  But you do not even make sense. first you 'claim' " So Danno and I will probably be allowed to go about our merry ways (outside city limits)" and then you 'claim' " The city cops just evicted some chickens across the street from me last week. " ..... so which is it? Face it you are the typical liberal who just wants govt. to run everything that you do not agree with, and allow you to do everything you do agree with. you are probably the one who called the police on the people across the street from you in the first place.

[danno]

Nicely said Better to Bee!!!!!!!

[buzzbee]

Well now,then how would we do something about that city dweller protected by the right to farm act that does not do things responsibly? Such as poor manure management and improperly stored feeds that create a rodent problem within the neighborhood?
There are some small municipalities where people still rely on well water that can become contaminated with improper manure management. It has happened in our vicinity.Should we turn our backs to this because it's farming?
I can see that these type of people are why municipalities want some control brought back to the home front.  Not hidden behind the "right to farm" act. Perhaps rewriting the act  to reflect a management plan within confines of a populated area may be beneficial. Local government can act on these types of problems faster than waiting on a state agency to make changes or find those being irresponsible.
Isn't it government control when the state passed a law overriding ordinances passed by people of local communities that are more in their interest?
Passing a law to protect us from other laws is still government control.

[buzzbee]

Perhaps we should pass a law that says a farmer that can no longer make a living can not sell his ground to the party willing to pay the most.Lets remove his personal freedom of what he does with his land so it will always be agricultural land.That would be the best protection for the agricultural community.

[Better.to.Bee.than.not]

Being protected and allowed to farm has nothing to do with poisoning the water supply or putting anyone in danger. So you do it like you would under any other situation. you find the people who are doing things irresponsibly and you fine them specifically for doing it. You certainly do not make a blanket statement that effects everyone, or denies everyone the ability. And while you are at it, you can also make guidelines with explanations that tells people exactly why those guidelines exist. poor management can harm the water supplies of the city and your neighbors and harm people.
As far as I'm concerned they can have reading material and anyone who wishes to small farm can be forced to sign a document saying they read and understand said material. After that if they continue or do things against it, then the case can be made that they are willfully doing things to harm others, or they can make the case to defend themselves.
 We can make guidelines that say for instance so many rabbits/chickens/etc per so much space. We can make guidelines on for instance not dumping rabbit or chicken waste down community wells or etc.
And if it was farmland before, which everything pretty much was at one time or another. merely because you come strolling in doesn't nor shouldn't mean you then get to tell others they have to then change because you don't like it. I do not think anyone is suggesting people cannot sell their land to whomever they wish. Nor once someone gains that land they cannot do what they wish with it, within limits. But a person cannot be allowed to buy land next to a farm, and then claim someone ELSE cannot then farm because they then own the land next to them. One is personal responsibility with your own possession and the other is trying to dictate what others do with their possessions.
 The world is going to get nothing but more populated. We are going to have to develop and find ways for people to grow and raise food in residential areas, there is no doubt about it. And we will have to have neighbors doing it as well as ourselves eventually. Many systems are and can be hugely self contained. Bees are not one of them. Bees need to, at this time anyways, for the most part forage to produce their product, and the world and it's agriculture needs them and other insects to do so as well. It's been forever since I've even seen a garter snake around. I'm not a nature 'freak' but when I bought my houses, it wasn't 'ME' that changed, it was the neighborhood AROUND me. and I have plenty of property to have things on, that won't nor do not effect my neighbors or their water at all. There should be no blanket statements that effect me, merely because someone else who owns a 90 x 150 ft lot and tries to raise 4,999 rabbits on it. Now if they live in a 16' x 76 mobile home, and they have it positioned with a area behind it and want to raise some rabbits, or chickens, then they have some area to do it. about 90 x 134 ft. People have dogs that make a total racket. There are laws and statutes that bind people to noise ordnances. It effects their dogs too. a certain decibel level a certain distance away, from certain times to certain times for a reason (To allow people to sleep) completely legit. That sound ordnance is in effect if it the neighbors kids, them playing their stereo, if they have noisy chickens, or anything else.

[BlueBee]

OK Mi beeks coming your way soon...  Bay City is re-writing their ordinances to limit you to 3 cats, 3 dogs, and make you pay for permits for bees and chickens!  Not only that, but a signed letter of approval from your neighbors if you want to keep bees.  How wonderful.....  :(

http://www.mlive.com/news/bay-city/index.ssf/2014/05/cat_limit_ordinance_back_on_do.html

Call me a liberal if you like, but I'm sick and tired of having to pay for a permit for everything I do in a city.  It's just another way for them to get even more money for their bloated salaries and wasteful spending IMO.  Meanwhile the people in Lansing seem to be asleep at the wheel. :(