Black Larvae - Bees Absconding

GDRankin · July 21, 2014, 02:26:58 PM

I thought of posting this in the DISEASE and PEST CONTROL section or the Removal section, but wasn't sure it was an exact fit for either / or both. So here it will sit unless otherwise directed, please forgive me if this post is in the wrong section of the site.

We did a small removal from a backyard Saturday evening and all went fine. The colony had a barely started working on building their comb. Maybe six or seven small sections about 6" x 8" or so in size. All fresh new soft stuff with very little honey so far, but a fair amount of pollen and larvae. I used the BeeVac to pull all the bees in and then carefully cut the comb and placed it in frames, as usual. (ended up with 4 partially filled med frames)

I let the bees stay in the vac over night and put them in a hive body Sunday around noon before leaving for the day. They moved into the new hive without issue, so I closed the top and didn't think anything else about them for the night.

All seemed fine and dandy and until today. When I checked on them this morning, there were no bees coming and going, so I opened the top to find no bees inside. An inspection of the frames seemed normal at a glance, but then I noticed some really dark looking larvae. (see pics)

I'm not sure if there is a connection to the black larvae and the bees absconding or not, but I wouldn't think the larvae would turn black in such a short time of not being tended to . . . but that's just a guess on my part. I'm hoping this is not a brood disease of some sort, but even if it is, would that cause the bees to abscond that soon?

I pulled the frames and removed them from the yard. Should these be destroyed/burned or will just trashing the comb and keeping the frames be okay? I don't want to contaminate any future colonies, so if reusing the hive body and / or frames is potentially dangerous, I'd just as soon burn them.

Any thoughts, comments and suggestions will be most appreciated.

Thanks,
GD

richter1978 · July 21, 2014, 11:08:33 PM

Queen? Possibly starved or chilled brood? I think overnight is too long to not be cared for by nurse bees. I don't think you need to burn anything.

BeeMaster2 · July 21, 2014, 11:29:21 PM

Ditto. If there are lots of bees, put the frames back in the hive and let the bees clean them out.
Jim

Kathyp · July 22, 2014, 12:55:39 AM

larvae died from not being attended/covered. hive absconded because they do that sometimes. they had no viable brood to care for, so nothing to keep them. next time put the bees in the hive.

GDRankin · July 22, 2014, 02:06:39 AM

I think I gave the wrong impression above.
(re: I let the bees stay in the vac over night and put them in a hive body Sunday around noon before leaving for the day. They moved into the new hive without issue, so I closed the top and didn't think anything else about them for the night.)

I use Robo's vac and always use the divider while the removal is in progress, but as soon as I get the comb all framed up, I place it in the top section of the vac and release the bees in with the brood by removing the divider from the shim before I even load the vac and start home with them.

So yes, the bees were with the comb & brood together over night in the vac and were all placed in a hive body the next day together. It was this morning - less than 24 hours later - that I checked the hive only to find the bees gone and the brood looking as shown in the photos.

Quotehive absconded because they do that sometimes

Yes, I realize that happens sometimes, but since I've only had one out of ten do that so far, I wondered if it may have had something to do with the discolored brood.
I guess it was the other way around? (the larvae died and turned color after the bees left?)

OldMech · July 22, 2014, 11:02:04 AM

Agred with what everyone else said.. If I have a frame of brood to spare I will put that into their hive and then close them in for the night. I have had less absconding problems when I give them a frame of brood to care for.. in fact.. NO absconding problems.. but I am sure sooner or later it will happen.
I would not be afraid to re use that equipment.

GDRankin · July 22, 2014, 01:39:06 PM

Quote from: richter1978 on July 21, 2014, 11:08:33 PM
Queen? Possibly starved or chilled brood? I think overnight is too long to not be cared for by nurse bees. I don't think you need to burn anything.

Again, I think I may not have explained with enough details . . . so :) Just to clear things up ...
The bees and the cut out frames of comb/brood were put back together as soon as I finished the cut out and before they were left overnight. So the frames had nurse bees with them from the time we left the original location until the bees flew the coupe, so to speak.

So since I didn't notice any dark colored larvae when I was putting the comb into the frames, I'm wondering if maybe the larvae turned black after the bees left the next day? I've never had any left like that before, so I've got nothing to compare this situation to for reference.

I was mainly curious if the black larvae was a sign of some sort of brood disease and if I should be concerned about destroying anything.

I hope that clears up the initial msg. :)
Thanks again guys,
GD

OldMech · July 22, 2014, 02:41:41 PM

Yes.. After the bees absconded is when they chilled.. There is also a chance that they never covered the larvae/eggs/brood after being put into the package due to the trauma and stress and were just waiting a chance to make the great escape.

GDRankin · July 22, 2014, 03:21:14 PM

Ah okay, that makes sense.
Thanks again,
GD

Blacksheep · July 22, 2014, 08:53:26 PM

I would think the cool air from the vac chilled the brood and the bees decided to leave as no need wasting time with the dead brood.

OldMech · July 22, 2014, 09:12:41 PM

Typically the brood does not go into the box until the cut out is done and all the bees vacced.. Otherwise you would be opening the vac every time you cut a piece of comb to be rubber banded into a frame.

Kathyp · July 22, 2014, 10:52:38 PM

Could the hive have been sprayed?

richter1978 · July 23, 2014, 11:36:36 PM

Where was the Queen, as far as the absconding is concerned.

I have seen chilled brood turn black.

Sorry for the loss, that's a lot of work (cutout).

sarahplusbees · July 24, 2014, 12:47:39 PM

I agree with everyone else. Given the circumstances, it's probably just chilled brood, which may have happened after the bees absconded, or while they were there if the bees were not being as diligent because of the trauma - or perhaps there were just not enough bees in the vac to take car of all the brood. I do agree with the "sometimes they abscond" sentiment though. As beekeepers we do everything we can to nudge the bees toward behaviors we want, but in the end they are wild critters and will do whatever they want.