pile of dead bees, but no other problems?

durkie · October 11, 2008, 09:44:46 PM

hey folks...i went and visited my hive today. last time i was out there was probably a month ago. during that time, i replaced two supers that i had harvested so they could clean out the leftover honey, and i left a large brood box from a failed hive on there that i had added when i took those supers off originally, so that they'd still have room in the hive.

but when i came back today, there was a huge pile of dead bees in front of the hive. i immediately suspected that the old broodbox had some weird disease in it that i now had introduced to my functioning hive, but that didn't seem to be the case after opening the hive. there were definitely a few dead bees here or there on the inside, but almost nothing was amiss. still have very solid brood pattern, and newborn bees weren't deformed. a lot bees were acting a little twitchy - they seemed to be overly cleaning themselves and one another. but they were not hostile at all, and it would have seemed a normal visit if the dead bees weren't out front.

the only thing weird i noticed were a few foreign bees, such as one that was completely black and had a more tapered abdomen, and one that appeared to be a honeybee, but had a completely dark abdomen (as in, almost no stripes).

anyone have any idea what is happening? are they under attack?

steve · October 11, 2008, 09:54:54 PM

Yep, with that much exposed honey there was most probably an attempt to robe, hence the pile of bee bodies
Steve

rast · October 11, 2008, 10:21:02 PM

My problem with thinking it was robbing is the month time period that has passed. Robbing should have taken place shortly after putting the supers back while the odor was strong. Bee bodies don't last a week on the ground here in Fl.
Pesticide poisoning? Did the brood you put on there hatch?

durkie · October 11, 2008, 10:26:49 PM

we were worried about pesticides also. i've never really thought about it before...hope the honey's safe.

but no, the box we put on was just empty frames with foundation. no brood...just wanted them to have space.

Brian D. Bray · October 12, 2008, 01:03:09 AM

That type of pile is more indictative of a pesticide poisoning. Lucky it was just a few instead of a heavy blow. Your bees seem to have righted themselves.

durkie · October 12, 2008, 01:09:25 PM

is there any reason to be concerned about the safety of the honey? it was easily harvested a month ago, but i don't know if bees died from eating stores or from foraging.

rast · October 12, 2008, 01:59:04 PM

If the stores were contaminated, your emerging brood would not survive and the hive would significantly weaken if fed from stores. I would look for recently dieing bees (a lot, not just the normal few that you normally see). Of course, you can't wait a month to go look.

contactme_11 · October 12, 2008, 06:23:55 PM

Are those black ones really honey bees?

BEES4U · October 12, 2008, 10:20:43 PM

Are those black ones really honey bees?

Yes, and we have them in the west too.
Ernie

jalentour · August 17, 2014, 09:26:59 PM

I pulled 3 brood frames from a healthy hive and let them sit in an empty nuc for 24 hours. I then added a queen I have purchased. The frames had about 50-60 bees from the old hive. As the bees emerge most are dieing within 36-48 hours. I don't see mites and the old hive is doing very well. They are not eating syrup (1-1) or honey or pollen patty. They move around slowly and die.
The queen seems to be healthy and is surrounded by about 100 bees in the center of the frames.
Does anyone have a solution to this? I have scoured the net and am at a loss. My only thought is that is has been chilly in SW Ohio this week, but I brought the nuc inside at night.

biggraham610 · August 17, 2014, 09:36:58 PM

You need to move nurses with broodframes when you make splits. They probably got chilled. They need to stay at a certain temperature. Good Luck. G

jalentour · August 17, 2014, 11:00:41 PM

biggrahm, thanks for your response. I checked the nuc about an hour ago. There were about 5-600 bees surrounding the queen. So my numbers seem to be increasing. Is this a hopeless situation? Should I cut my losses and capture the queen and start all over. I have two strong healthy hives to draw from.

biggraham610 · August 18, 2014, 12:18:05 AM

Im new, second year, but im pretty sure a seasoned veteran would tell you to give them a frame of open brood with accompanying nurses and shake the nurses from another frame from your strongest hive in as well. No Its not a lost cause. Good Luck. G :chop:

GSF · August 18, 2014, 06:28:55 AM

When you shake those bees off make sure the queen isn't on the frame you're shaking. I try to find her on one frame then shake a different one.

JackM · August 18, 2014, 08:50:31 AM

Are you certain that these dead bees are not drones? It is about that time of year where they get kicked out.

biggraham610 · August 18, 2014, 08:34:13 PM

Quote from: JackM on August 18, 2014, 08:50:31 AM
Are you certain that these dead bees are not drones? It is about that time of year where they get kicked out.

He said the frames had 50-60 bees, I assumed he didnt transfer the attending nurses. Thats why I suspect chilled brood. G :chop:

jalentour · August 18, 2014, 10:53:48 PM

The nuc has increased in size and is cleaning the dead bees out. I have 7 1/4 frames with 3 of them now about 2/3 full of bees on each side. So some of the brood are surviving. I have two frames completely empty that were added after I put the queen in, I did not expect any activity on the empty frames.

I noticed today some of the bees that had emerged had no wings. They sort of appeared to be emerging prematurely. They were most often carried out and dropped nearby.

The cold may have affected them, but I am wondering if the healthy bees are just culling out the sick. Typically, what percentage of newly emerged brood survive? I put a living but dieing bee under a strong magnifying glass and found no evidence of varroa mites. I don't know if I could see tracheal mites. The ones that are dieing are straw colored and cannot walk well or fly. They roll over on their backs and seem to spasm and struggle.

Today they started flying out of the nuc in larger numbers and ate 1:1 syrup. Some, few, were eating the pollen patty I made.

I'm hoping the nuc stays healthy and the queen is laying.

I put fondant in the nuc this evening because I don't want to attract wasps and other bees to the hive. Is there something else I can feed them? Other than nature taking it course is there anything else I can do?

jalentour · August 18, 2014, 10:59:15 PM

I can't tell if the dead bees are drones. They are all small.

I thought if I took bees from another hive they would kill the queen. I can get another brood frame and shake it in but my hives are an hour away from my home where the nuc is. Is the nuc too far along now or is it still a good time to add brood/nurse bees?

BeeMaster2 · August 19, 2014, 06:32:16 AM

Quote from: jvalentour on August 17, 2014, 11:00:41 PM
biggrahm, thanks for your response. I checked the nuc about an hour ago. There were about 5-600 bees surrounding the queen. So my numbers seem to be increasing. Is this a hopeless situation? Should I cut my losses and capture the queen and start all over. I have two strong healthy hives to draw from.

JV,
Since the number of bee is increasing, I would not add more bees. Is the queen laying eggs?
My biggest concern is what is killing your bees. Is it what you are feeding them?
You mentioned it was chilly. How cold is chilly?
Why are you feeding them pollen patties. Is there a dearth in your area? If there is pollen being brought to the hive, I would remove it. Down here, pollen patties are just brood nests for small hive beetles. One good SHB can fill your hive full of SHBs from that pollen patty.

jalentour · August 19, 2014, 10:26:49 AM

Saw,
They are eating 1:1 sugar water I sat out about 20 yards from the nuc. I put fondant in the nuc last night. I am concerned about raiding bees. I plan to end the sugar water tonight because it seems to be attracting unwanted guests. Besides they have fondant inside the nuc. If they don't eat the fondant, should I just pour 1:1 sugar water in the nuc bottom? I do not have a feeder at this site.
I pulled the pollen patty, it is no longer available. It was homemade and only available 24 hours. So, I think they started dieing before they started eating if that makes sense.
I was trying a little of everything because the first week they appeared to be starving. They did not even eat honey.
As of Tuesday AM there is a lot of exterior activity and more dead being removed.
I will check tonight if the queen is laying.
Cold means 47 degrees.
If the queen is laying I think they have a chance, I just need to feed them properly. (unless the comb is contaminated with something, but the hive they came from is healthy).
Your thoughts?